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Library => History & Civilization => Philosophy & Religion => Topic started by: Sue on June 23, 2011, 04:18:22 PM

Title: * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Sue on June 23, 2011, 04:18:22 PM
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Chaz Bufe from Scribd Website (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican32.htm)

            Reasons

            Christianity is based on fear
            Christianity preys on the innocent
            Christianity is based on dishonesty
            Christianity is extremely egocentric
            Christianity breeds arrogance, a chosen-people mentality
            Christianity breeds authoritarianism
            Christianity is cruel
            Christianity is anti-intellectual, anti-scientific
            Christianity has a morbid, unhealthy preoccupation with sex
            Christianity produces sexual misery
            Christianity has an exceedingly narrow, legalistic view of morality
            Christianity encourages acceptance of real evils while focusing on imaginary evils
            Christianity depreciates the natural world
            Christianity models hierarchical, authoritarian organization
            Christianity sanctions slavery
            Christianity is misogynistic
            Christianity is homophobic
            The Bible is not a reliable guide to Christ's teachings
            The Bible is riddled with contradictions
            Christianity borrowed its central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions

This pamphlet briefly looks at many of the reasons that Christianity is undesirable from both a personal and a social point of view. All of the matters discussed here have been dealt with elsewhere at greater length, but that’s beside the point: the purpose of 20 Reasons to Abandon Christianity is to list the most outstanding misery-producing and socially destructive qualities of Christianity in one place. When considered in toto, they lead to an irresistible conclusion:

   that Christianity must be abandoned, for the sake of both personal happiness and social progress.

As regards the title, "abandon"—rather than "suppress" or "do away with"—was chosen deliberately. Attempts to coercively suppress beliefs are not only ethically wrong, but in the long run they are often ineffective—as the recent resurgence of religion in the former Soviet Union demonstrates.

If Christianity is ever to disappear, it will be because individual human beings wake up, abandon their destructive, repressive beliefs, and choose life, choose to be here now.

Christianity is based on fear.

While today there are liberal clergy who preach a gospel of love, they ignore the bulk of Christian teachings, not to mention the bulk of Christian history. Throughout almost its entire time on Earth, the motor driving Christianity has been—in addition to the fear of death—fear of the devil and fear of hell. One can only imagine how potent these threats seemed prior to the rise of science and rational thinking, which have largely robbed these bogeys of their power to inspire terror.

But even today, the existence of the devil and hell are cardinal doctrinal tenets of almost all Christian creeds, and many fundamentalist preachers still openly resort to terrorizing their followers with lurid, sadistic portraits of the suffering of nonbelievers after death. This is not an attempt to convince through logic and reason; it is not an attempt to appeal to the better nature of individuals; rather, it is an attempt to whip the flock into line through threats, through appeals to a base part of human nature—fear and cowardice.
 
Christianity preys on the innocent.

If Christian fear-mongering were directed solely at adults, it would be bad enough, but Christians routinely terrorize helpless children through grisly depictions of the endless horrors and suffering they’ll be subjected to if they don’t live good Christian lives. Christianity has darkened the early years of generation after generation of children, who have lived in terror of dying while in mortal sin and going to endless torment as a result.

All of these children were trusting of adults, and they did not have the ability to analyze what they were being told; they were simply helpless victims, who, ironically, victimized following generations in the same manner that they themselves had been victimized. The nearly 2000 years of Christian terrorizing of children ranks as one of its greatest crimes. And it’s one that continues to this day.

As an example of Christianity’s cruel brainwashing of the innocent, consider this quotation from an officially approved, 19th-century Catholic children’s book (Tracts for Spiritual Reading, by Rev. J. Furniss, C.S.S.R.):

    Look into this little prison. In the middle of it there is a boy, a young man. He is silent; despair is on him . . . His eyes are burning like two burning coals. Two long flames come out of his ears. His breathing is difficult. Sometimes he opens his mouth and breath of blazing fire rolls out of it. But listen! There is a sound just like that of a kettle boiling. Is it really a kettle which is boiling? No; then what is it? Hear what it is. The blood is boiling in the scalding veins of that boy. The brain is boiling and bubbling in his head. The marrow is boiling in his bones. Ask him why he is thus tormented. His answer is that when he was alive, his blood boiled to do very wicked things.

There are many similar passages in this book. Commenting on it, William Meagher, Vicar-General of Dublin, states in his Approbation:

    "I have carefully read over this Little Volume for Children and have found nothing whatever in it contrary to the doctrines of the Holy Faith; but on the contrary, a great deal to charm, instruct and edify the youthful classes for whose benefit it has been written."
   
Christianity is based on dishonesty.

The Christian appeal to fear, to cowardice, is an admission that the evidence supporting Christian beliefs is far from compelling. If the evidence were such that Christianity’s truth was immediately apparent to anyone who considered it, Christians—including those who wrote the Gospels—would feel no need to resort to the cheap tactic of using fear-inducing threats to inspire "belief." ("Lip service" is a more accurate term.) That the Christian clergy have been more than willing to accept such lip service (plus the dollars and obedience that go with it) in place of genuine belief, is an additional indictment of the basic dishonesty of Christianity.

How deep dishonesty runs in Christianity can be gauged by one of the most popular Christian arguments for belief in God: Pascal’s wager. This "wager" holds that it’s safer to "believe" in God (as if belief were volitional!) than not to believe, because God might exist, and if it does, it will save "believers" and condemn nonbelievers to hell after death. This is an appeal to pure cowardice. It has absolutely nothing to do with the search for truth. Instead, it’s an appeal to abandon honesty and intellectual integrity, and to pretend that lip service is the same thing as actual belief. If the patriarchal God of Christianity really exists, one wonders how it would judge the cowards and hypocrites who advance and bow to this particularly craven "wager."
 
Christianity is extremely egocentric.

The deep ego-centrism of Christianity is intimately tied to its reliance on fear. In addition to the fears of the devil and hell, Christianity plays on another of humankind’s most basic fears: death, the dissolution of the individual ego. Perhaps Christianity’s strongest appeal is its promise of eternal life. While there is absolutely no evidence to support this claim, most people are so terrified of death that they cling to this treacly promise insisting, like frightened children, that it must be true. Nietzsche put the matter well:

    "salvation of the soul—in plain words, the world revolves around me."

It’s difficult to see anything spiritual in this desperate grasping at straws—this desperate grasping at the illusion of personal immortality.

Another manifestation of the extreme egotism of Christianity is the belief that God is intimately concerned with picayune aspects of, and directly intervenes in, the lives of individuals. If God, the creator and controller of the universe, is vitally concerned with your sex life, you must be pretty damned important. Many Christians take this particular form of egotism much further and actually imagine that God has a plan for them, or that God directly talks to, directs, or even does favors for them.(1)

If one ignored the frequent and glaring contradictions in this supposed divine guidance, and the dead bodies sometimes left in its wake, one could almost believe that the individuals making such claims are guided by God. But one can’t ignore the contradictions in and the oftentimes horrible results of following such "divine guidance." As "Agent Mulder" put it (perhaps paraphrasing Thomas Szasz) in a 1998 X-Files episode,

    "When you talk to God it’s prayer, but when God talks to you it’s schizophrenia... God may have his reasons, but he sure seems to employ a lot of psychotics to carry out his job orders."

In less extreme cases, the insistence that one is receiving divine guidance or special treatment from God is usually the attempt of those who feel worthless—or helpless, adrift in an uncaring universe—to feel important or cared for. This less sinister form of egotism is commonly found in the expressions of disaster survivors that,

    "God must have had a reason for saving me" (in contrast to their less-worthy-of-life fellow disaster victims, whom God—who controls all things—killed).

Again, it’s very difficult to see anything spiritual in such egocentricity.
 
Christianity breeds arrogance, a chosen-people mentality.

It’s only natural that those who believe (or play act at believing) that they have a direct line to the Almighty would feel superior to others. This is so obvious that it needs little elaboration. A brief look at religious terminology confirms it. Christians have often called themselves "God’s people," "the chosen people," "the elect," "the righteous," etc., while nonbelievers have been labeled "heathens," "infidels," and "atheistic Communists" (as if atheism and Communism are intimately connected). This sets up a two-tiered division of humanity, in which "God’s people" feel superior to those who are not "God’s people."

That many competing religions with contradictory beliefs make the same claim seems not to matter at all to the members of the various sects that claim to be the only carriers of "the true faith." The carnage that results when two competing sects of "God’s people" collide—as in Ireland and Palestine—would be quite amusing but for the suffering it causes.
 
Christianity breeds authoritarianism.

Given that Christians claim to have the one true faith, to have a book that is the Word of God, and (in many cases) to receive guidance directly from God, they feel little or no compunction about using force and coercion to enforce "God’s Will" (which they, of course, interpret and understand). Given that they believe (or pretend) that they’re receiving orders from the Almighty (who would cast them into hell should they disobey), it’s little wonder that they feel no reluctance, and in fact are eager, to intrude into the most personal aspects of the lives of nonbelievers.

This is most obvious today in the area of sex, with Christians attempting to deny women the right to abortion and to mandate near-useless abstinence-only sex "education" in the public schools. It’s also obvious in the area of education, with Christians attempting to force biology teachers to teach their creation myth (but not those of Hindus, Native Americans, et al.) in place of (or as being equally valid as) the very well established theory of evolution. But the authoritarian tendencies of Christianity reach much further than this.

Up until well into the 20th century in the United States and other Christian countries (notably Ireland), Christian churches pressured governments into passing laws forbidding the sale and distribution of birth control devices, and they also managed to enact laws forbidding even the description of birth control devices. This assault on free speech was part and parcel of Christianity’s shameful history of attempting to suppress "indecent" and "subversive" materials (and to throw their producers in jail or burn them alive).

(http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_vaticano/vatican32_01.jpg)       This anti-free speech stance of Christianity dates back centuries, with the cases of Galileo Galilei and Giordano Bruno (who was burnt alive) being good illustrations of it. Perhaps the most colorful example of this intrusive Christian tendency toward censorship is the Catholic Church’s Index of Prohibited Books, which dates from the 16th century and which was abandoned only in the latter part of the 20th century—not because the church recognized it as a crime against human freedom, but because it could no longer be enforced (not that it was ever systematically enforced—that was too big a job even for the Inquisition).

    Christian authoritarianism extends, however, far beyond attempts to suppress free speech; it extends even to attempts to suppress freedom of belief. In the 15th century, under Ferdinand and Isabella at about the time of Columbus’s discovery of the New World, Spain’s Jews were ordered either to convert to Christianity or to flee the country; about half chose exile, while those who remained, the "Conversos," were favorite targets of the Holy Inquisition. A few years later, Spain’s Muslims were forced to make a similar choice.

    This Christian hatred of freedom of belief—and of individual freedom in general—extends to this day. Up until the late 19th century in England, atheists who had the temerity to openly advocate their beliefs were jailed. Even today in many parts of the United States laws still exist that forbid atheists from serving on juries or from holding public office. And it’s no mystery what the driving force is behind laws against victimless "crimes" such as nudity, sodomy, fornication, cohabitation, and prostitution.

    If your non-intrusive beliefs or actions are not in accord with Christian "morality," you can bet that Christians will feel completely justified—not to mention righteous—in poking their noses (often in the form of state police agencies) into your private life.
     
    Christianity is cruel.

    Throughout its history, cruelty—both to self and others—has been one of the most prominent features of Christianity. From its very start, Christianity, with its bleak view of life, its emphasis upon sexual sin, and its almost impossible-to-meet demands for sexual "purity," encouraged guilt, penance, and self-torture. Today, this self-torture is primarily psychological, in the form of guilt arising from following (or denying, and thus obsessing over) one’s natural sexual desires. In earlier centuries, it was often physical.

    W.E.H. Lecky relates:

        For about two centuries, the hideous maceration of the body was regarded as the highest proof of excellence. . . . The cleanliness of the body was regarded as a pollution of the soul, and the saints who were most admired had become one hideous mass of clotted filth. . . . But of all the evidences of the loathsome excesses to which this spirit was carried, the life of St. Simeon Stylites is probably the most remarkable. . . . He had bound a rope around him so that it became embedded in his flesh, which putrefied around it.

        A horrible stench, intolerable to the bystanders, exhaled from his body, and worms dropped from him whenever he moved, and they filled his bed... For a whole year, we are told, St. Simeon stood upon one leg, the other being covered with hideous ulcers, while his biographer [St. Anthony] was commissioned to stand by his side, to pick up the worms that fell from his body, and to replace them in the sores, the saint saying to the worms, "Eat what God has given you."

    From every quarter pilgrims of every degree thronged to do him homage. A crowd of prelates followed him to the grave. A brilliant star is said to have shone miraculously over his pillar; the general voice of mankind pronounced him to be the highest model of a Christian saint; and several other anchorites [Christian hermits] imitated or emulated his penances.

    Given that the Bible nowhere condemns torture and sometimes prescribes shockingly cruel penalties (such as burning alive), and that Christians so wholeheartedly approved of self-torture, it’s not surprising that they thought little of inflicting appallingly cruel treatment upon others. At the height of Christianity’s power and influence, hundreds of thousands of "witches" were brutally tortured and burned alive under the auspices of ecclesiastical witch finders, and the Inquisition visited similarly cruel treatment upon those accused of heresy.

    Henry Charles Lea records:

        Two hundred wretches crowded the filthy gaol and it was requisite to forbid the rest of the Conversos [Jews intimidated into converting to Christianity] from leaving the city [Jaen, Spain] without a license. With Diego’s assistance [Diego de Algeciras, a petty criminal and kept perjurer] and the free use of torture, on both accused and witnesses, it was not difficult to obtain whatever evidence was desired. The notary of the tribunal, Antonio de Barcena, was especially successful in this.

        On one occasion, he locked a young girl of fifteen in a room, stripped her naked and scourged her until she consented to bear testimony against her mother. A prisoner was carried in a chair to the auto da fe with his feet burnt to the bone; he and his wife were burnt alive... The cells in which the unfortunates were confined in heavy chains were narrow, dark, humid, filthy and overrun with vermin, while their sequestrated property was squandered by the officials, so that they nearly starved in prison while their helpless children starved outside.

    While the torture and murder of heretics and "witches" is now largely a thing of the past, Christians can still be remarkably cruel. One current example is provided by the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas. Its members picket the funerals of victims of AIDS and gay bashings, brandishing signs reading, "God Hates Fags," "AIDS Cures Fags," and "Thank God for AIDS."

    The pastor of this church reportedly once sent a "condolence" card to the bereaved mother of an AIDS victim, reading "Another Dead Fag."(2) Christians are also at the forefront of those advocating vicious, life-destroying penalties for those who commit victimless "crimes," as well as being at the forefront of those who support the death penalty and those who want to make prison conditions even more barbaric than they are now.

    But this should not be surprising coming from Christians, members of a religion that teaches that eternal torture is not only justified, but that the "saved" will enjoy seeing the torture of others. As St. Thomas Aquinas put it:

    In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful and that they may give to God more copious thanks for it, they are permitted perfectly to behold the sufferings of the damned... The saints will rejoice in the punishment of the damned.

    Thus the vision of heaven of Christianity’s greatest theologian is a vision of the sadistic enjoyment of endless torture.
     
    Christianity is anti-intellectual, anti-scientific.

    For over a millennium Christianity arrested the development of science and scientific thinking. In Christendom, from the time of Augustine until the Renaissance, systematic investigation of the natural world was restricted to theological investigation—the interpretation of biblical passages, the gleaning of clues from the lives of the saints, etc.; there was no direct observation and interpretation of natural processes, because that was considered a useless pursuit, as all knowledge resided in scripture.

    The results of this are well known: scientific knowledge advanced hardly an inch in the over 1000 years from the rise of orthodox Christianity in the fourth century to the 1500s, and the populace was mired in the deepest squalor and ignorance, living in dire fear of the supernatural—believing in paranormal explanations for the most ordinary natural events. This ignorance had tragic results: it made the populace more than ready to accept witchcraft as an explanation for everything from illness to thunderstorms, and hundreds of thousands of women paid for that ignorance with their lives.     

    One of the commonest charges against witches was that they had raised hailstorms or other weather disturbances to cause misfortune to their neighbors. In an era when supernatural explanations were readily accepted, such charges held weight—and countless innocent people died horrible deaths as a result. Another result was that the fearful populace remained very dependent upon Christianity and its clerical wise men for protection against the supernatural evils which they believed surrounded and constantly menaced them. For men and women of the Middle Ages, the walls veritably crawled with demons and witches; and their only protection from those evils was the church.

    When scientific investigation into the natural world resumed in the Renaissance—after a 1000-year-plus hiatus—organized Christianity did everything it could to stamp it out. The cases of Copernicus and Galileo are particularly relevant here, because when the Catholic Church banned the Copernican theory (that the Earth revolves around the sun) and banned Galileo from teaching it, it did not consider the evidence for that theory: it was enough that it contradicted scripture. Given that the Copernican theory directly contradicted the Word of God, the Catholic hierarchy reasoned that it must be false. Protestants shared this view.

    John Calvin rhetorically asked,

        “Who will venture to place the authority of Copernicus above that of the Holy Spirit?"

    More lately, the Catholic Church and the more liberal Protestant congregations have realized that fighting against science is a losing battle, and they’ve taken to claiming that there is no contradiction between science and religion. This is disingenuous at best. As long as Christian sects continue to claim as fact—without offering a shred of evidence beyond the anecdotal—that physically impossible events occurred (or are still occurring), the conflict between science and religion will remain. That many churchmen and many scientists seem content to let this conflict lie doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.

    Today, however, the conflict between religion and science is largely being played out in the area of public school biology education, with Christian fundamentalists demanding that their creation myth be taught in place of (or along with) the theory of evolution in the public schools. Their tactics rely heavily on public misunderstanding of science. They nitpick the fossil record for its gaps (hardly surprising given that we inhabit a geologically and meteorologically very active planet), while offering absurd interpretations of their own which we’re supposed to accept at face value—such as that dinosaur fossils were placed in the earth by Satan to confuse humankind, or that Noah took baby dinosaurs on the ark.

    They also attempt to take advantage of public ignorance of the nature of scientific theories. In popular use, “theory” is employed as a synonym for “hypothesis,” “conjecture,” or even “wild guess,” that is, it signifies an idea with no special merit or backing. The use of the term in science is quite different. There, “theory” refers to a well-developed, logically consistent explanation of a phenomenon, and an explanation that is consistent with observed facts. This is very different than a wild guess. But fundamentalists deliberately confuse the two uses of the term in an attempt to make their religious myth appear as valid as a well-supported scientific theory.

    They also attempt to confuse the issue by claiming that those non-specialists who accept the theory of evolution have no more reason to do so than they have in accepting their religious creation myth, or even that those who accept evolution do so on “faith.” Again, this is more than a bit dishonest.

    Thanks to scientific investigation, human knowledge has advanced to the point where no one can know more than a tiny fraction of the whole. Even the most knowledgeable scientists often know little beyond their specialty areas. But because of the structure of science, they (and everyone else) can feel reasonably secure in accepting the theories developed by scientists in other disciplines as the best possible current explanations of the areas of nature those disciplines cover. They (and we) can feel secure doing this because of the structure of science, and more particularly, because of the scientific method.

    That method basically consists of gathering as much information about a phenomenon (both in nature and in the laboratory) as possible, then developing explanations for it (hypotheses), and then testing the hypotheses to see how well they explain the observed facts, and whether or not any of those observed facts are inconsistent with the hypotheses. Those hypotheses that are inconsistent with observed facts are discarded or modified, while those that are consistent are retained, and those that survive repeated testing are often labeled “theories,” as in “the theory of relativity” and “the theory of evolution.”

    This is the reason that non-specialists are justified in accepting scientific theories outside their disciplines as the best current explanations of observed phenomena: those who developed the theories were following standard scientific practice and reasoning—and if they deviate from that, other scientists will quickly call them to task.

    No matter how much fundamentalists might protest to the contrary, there is a world of difference between “faith” in scientific theories (produced using the scientific method, and subject to near-continual testing and scrutiny) and faith in the entirely unsupported myths recorded 3000 years ago by slave-holding goat herders.

    Nearly 500 years ago Martin Luther, in his Table Talk, stated:

        “Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has.”

    The opposite is also true.
   
    Christianity has a morbid, unhealthy preoccupation with sex.

    For centuries, Christianity has had an exceptionally unhealthy fixation on sex, to the exclusion of almost everything else (except power, money, and the infliction of cruelty). This stems from the numerous "thou shalt nots" relating to sex in the Bible. That the Ten Commandments contain a commandment forbidding the coveting of one’s neighbor’s wife, but do not even mention slavery, torture, or cruelty—which were abundantly common in the time the Commandments were written— speaks volumes about their writer’s preoccupation with sex (and women as property).

    Today, judging from the pronouncements of many Christian leaders, one would think that "morality" consists solely of what one does in one’s bedroom. The Catholic Church is the prime example here, with its moral pronouncements rarely going beyond the matters of birth control and abortion (and with its moral emphasis seemingly entirely on those matters). Also note that the official Catholic view of sex—that it’s for the purpose of procreation only—reduces human sexual relations to those of brood animals. For more than a century the Catholic Church has also been the driving force behind efforts to prohibit access to birth control devices and information—to everyone, not just Catholics.

    The Catholic Church, however, is far from alone in its sick obsession with sex. The current Christian hate campaign against homosexuals is another prominent manifestation of this perverse preoccupation. Even at this writing, condemnation of "sodomites" from church pulpits is still very, very common—with Christian clergymen wringing their hands as they piously proclaim that their words of hate have nothing to do with gay bashings and the murder of gays.
     
    Christianity produces sexual misery.

    In addition to the misery produced by authoritarian Christian intrusions into the sex lives of non-Christians, Christianity produces great misery among its own adherents through its insistence that sex (except the very narrow variety it sanctions) is evil, against God’s law. Christianity proscribes sex between unmarried people, sex outside of marriage, homosexual relations, bestiality, (3) and even “impure” sexual thoughts. Indulging in such things can and will, in the conventional Christian view, lead straight to hell.

    Given that human beings are by nature highly sexual beings, and that their urges very often do not fit into the only officially sanctioned Christian form of sexuality (monogamous, heterosexual marriage), it’s inevitable that those who attempt to follow Christian “morality” in this area are often miserable, as their strongest urges run smack dab into the wall of religious belief. This is inevitable in Christian adolescents and unmarried young people in that the only “pure” way for them to behave is celibately—in the strict Christian view, even masturbation is prohibited.

    Phillip Roth has well described the dilemma of the religiously/sexually repressed young in Portnoy’s Complaint as “being torn between desires that are repugnant to my conscience and a conscience repugnant to my desires.” Thus the years of adolescence and young adulthood for many Christians are poisoned by “sinful” urges, unfulfilled longings, and intense guilt (after the urges become too much to bear and are acted upon).

    Even after Christian young people receive a license from church and state to have sex, they often discover that the sexual release promised by marriage is not all that it’s cracked up to be. One gathers that in marriages between those who have followed Christian rules up until marriage—that is, no sex at all—sexual ineptitude and lack of fulfillment are all too common. Even when Christian married people do have good sexual relations, the problems do not end. Sexual attractions ebb and flow, and new attractions inevitably arise. In conventional Christian relationships, one is not allowed to act on these new attractions. One is often not even permitted to admit that such attractions exist.

    As Sten Linnander puts it,

        “with traditional [Christian] morality, you have to choose between being unfaithful to yourself or to another.”

    The dilemma is even worse for gay teens and young people in that Christianity never offers them release from their unrequited urges. They are simply condemned to lifelong celibacy. If they indulge their natural desires, they become “sodomites” subject not only to Earthly persecution (due to Christian-inspired laws), but to being roasted alive forever in the pit. Given the internalized homophobia Christian teachings inspire, not to mention the very real discrimination gay people face, it’s not surprising that a great many homosexually oriented Christians choose to live a lie. In most cases, this leads to lifelong personal torture, but it can have even more tragic results.

    A prime example is Marshall Applewhite, “John Do,” the guru of the Heaven’s Gate religious cult. Applewhite grew up in the South in a repressive Christian fundamentalist family. Horrified by his homosexual urges, he began to think of sexuality itself as evil, and eventually underwent castration to curb his sexual urges.(4)

    Several of his followers took his anti-sexual teachings to heart and likewise underwent castration before, at “Do’s” direction, killing themselves.
     
    Christianity has an exceedingly narrow, legalistic view of morality.

    Christianity not only reduces, for all practical purposes, the question of morality to that of sexual behavior, but by listing its prohibitions, it encourages an "everything not prohibited is permitted" mentality. So, for instance, medieval inquisitors tortured their victims, while at the same time they went to lengths to avoid spilling the blood of those they tortured—though they thought nothing of burning them alive. Another very relevant example is that until the latter part of the 19th century Christians engaged in the slave trade, and Christian preachers defended it, citing biblical passages, from the pulpit.

    Today, with the exception of a relatively few liberal churchgoers, Christians ignore the very real evils plaguing our society—

        poverty
        homelessness
        hunger
        militarism
        a grossly unfair distribution of wealth and income
        ecological despoliation exacerbated by corporate greed
        overpopulation
        sexism
        racism
        homophobia
        freedom-denying
        invasive drug laws
        an inadequate educational system

        etc., etc...

    —unless they’re actively working to worsen those evils in the name of Christian morality or "family values."
     
    Christianity encourages acceptance of real evils while focusing on imaginary evils.

    Organized Christianity is a skillful apologist for the status quo and all the evils that go along with it. It diverts attention from real problems by focusing attention on sexual issues, and when confronted with social evils such as poverty glibly dismisses them with platitudes such as, "The poor ye have always with you."

    When confronted with the problems of militarism and war, most Christians shrug and say,

        "That’s human nature. It’s always been that way, and it always will."

    One suspects that 200 years ago their forebears would have said exactly the same thing about slavery. This regressive, conservative tendency of Christianity has been present from its very start.

    The Bible is quite explicit in its instructions to accept the status quo:

        "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God; and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation."

        (Romans 13:1–2)
         
    Christianity depreciates the natural world.

    In addition to its morbid preoccupation with sex, Christianity creates social myopia through its emphasis on the supposed afterlife—encouraging Christians not to be concerned with "the things of this world" (except, of course, their neighbors’ sexual practices). In the conventional Christian view, life in this "vale of tears" is not important—what matters is preparing for the next life. (Of course it follows from this that the "vale of tears" itself is quite unimportant—it’s merely the backdrop to the testing of the faithful.)

    The Christian belief in the unimportance of happiness and well-being in this world is well illustrated by a statement by St. Alphonsus:

        It would be a great advantage to suffer during all our lives all the torments of the martyrs in exchange for one moment of heaven. Sufferings in this world are a sign that God loves us and intends to save us.

    This focus on the afterlife often leads to a distinct lack of concern for the natural world, and sometimes to outright anti-ecological attitudes. Ronald Reagan’s fundamentalist Secretary of the Interior, James Watt, went so far as to actively encourage the strip mining and clear cutting of the American West, reasoning that ecological damage didn’t matter because the "rapture" was at hand.
     
    Christianity models hierarchical, authoritarian organization.

    Christianity is perhaps the ultimate top-down enterprise. In its simplest form, it consists of God on top, its "servants," the clergy, next down, and the great unwashed masses at the bottom, with those above issuing, in turn, thou-shalts and thou-shalt-nots backed by the threat of eternal damnation. But a great many Christian sects go far beyond this, having several layers of management and bureaucracy. Catholicism is perhaps the most extreme example of this with its laity, monks, nuns, priests, monsignors, bishops, archbishops, cardinals, and popes, all giving and taking orders in an almost military manner.

    This type of organization cannot but accustom those in its sway—especially those who have been indoctrinated and attending its ceremonies since birth—into accepting hierarchical, authoritarian organization as the natural, if not the only, form of organization. Those who find such organization natural will see nothing wrong with hierarchical, authoritarian organization in other forms, be they corporations, with their multiple layers of brown-nosing management, or governments, with their judges, legislators, presidents, and politburos. The indoctrination by example that Christianity provides in the area of organization is almost surely a powerful influence against social change toward freer, more egalitarian forms of organization.
     
    Christianity sanctions slavery.

    The African slave trade was almost entirely conducted by Christians. They transported their victims to the New World in slave ships with names such as "Mercy" and "Jesus," where they were bought by Christians, both Catholic and Protestant. Organized Christianity was not silent on this horror: it actively encouraged it and engaged in it.

    From the friars who enslaved Native Americans in the Southwest and Mexico to the Protestant preachers who defended slavery from the pulpit in Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia, the record of Christianity as regards slavery is quite shameful. While many abolitionists were Christians, they were a very small group, well hated by most of their fellow Christians.

    The Christians who supported and engaged in slavery were amply supported by the Bible, in which slavery is accepted as a given, as simply a part of the social landscape. There are numerous biblical passages that implicitly or explicitly endorse slavery, such as Exodus 21:20–21:

        "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."

    Other passages that support slavery include Ephesians 6:5, Colossians 3:22, Titus 2:9–10, Exodus 21:2–6, Leviticus 25:44–46, 1 Peter 2:18, and 1 Timothy 6:1. Christian slave owners in colonial America were well acquainted with these passages.
     
    Christianity is misogynistic.

    Misogyny is fundamental to the basic writings of Christianity. In passage after passage, women are encouraged—no, commanded—to accept an inferior role, and to be ashamed of themselves for the simple fact that they are women. Misogynistic biblical passages are so common that it’s difficult to know which to cite.

    From the New Testament we find:

        "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church...."

        (Ephesians 5:22–23)

        "These [redeemed] are they which were not defiled with women; . . ."

        (Revelation 14:4)

    From the Old Testament we find:

        "How then can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?"

        (Job 25:4)

    Other relevant New Testament passages include:

        Colossians 3:18;

        1 Peter 3:7;

        1 Corinthians 11:3, 11:9, and 14:34; and

        1 Timothy 2:11–12 and 5:5–6.

    Other Old Testament passages include Numbers 5:20–22 and Leviticus 12:2–5 and 15:17–33.

    Later Christian writers extended the misogynistic themes in the Bible with a vengeance. Tertullian, one of the early church fathers, wrote:

        In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God’s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil’s gateway; you are she who first violated the forbidden tree and broke the law of God. It was you who coaxed your way around him whom the devil had not the force to attack. With what ease you shattered that image of God: Man! Because of the death you merited, even the Son of God had to die... Woman, you are the gate to hell.

    One can find similarly misogynistic—though sometimes less venomous—statements in the writings of many other church fathers and theologians, including St. Ambrose, St. Anthony, Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory of Nazianzum, and St. Jerome.

    This misogynistic bias in Christianity’s basic texts has long been translated into misogyny in practice. Throughout almost the entire time that Christianity had Europe and America in its lock grip, women were treated as chattel—they had essentially no political rights, and their right to own property was severely restricted. Perhaps the clearest illustration of the status of women in the ages when Christianity was at its most powerful is the prevalence of wife beating.

    This degrading, disgusting practice was very common throughout Christendom well up into the 19th century, and under English Common Law husbands who beat their wives were specifically exempted from prosecution. (While wife beating is still common in Christian lands, at least in some countries abusers are at least sometimes prosecuted.)

    At about the same time that English Common Law (with its wife-beating exemption) was being formulated and codified, Christians all across Europe were engaging in a half-millennium-long orgy of torture and murder of "witches"—at the direct behest and under the direction of the highest church authorities.

    The watchword of the time was Exodus 22:18, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," and at the very minimum hundreds of thousands of women were brutally murdered as a result of this divine injunction, and the papal bulls amplifying it (e.g., Spondit Pariter, by John XXII, and Summis Desiderantes, by Innocent VIII).

    Andrew Dickson White notes:

        On the 7th of December, 1484, Pope Innocent VIII sent forth the bull Summis Desiderantes. Of all documents ever issued from Rome, imperial or papal, this has doubtless, first and last, cost the greatest shedding of innocent blood. Yet no document was ever more clearly dictated by conscience.

        Inspired by the scriptural command, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," Pope Innocent exhorted the clergy of Germany to,

            leave no means untried to detect sorcerers . . . [W]itch-finding inquisitors were authorized by the Pope to scour Europe, especially Germany, and a manual was prepared for their use [by the Dominicans Heinrich Krämer and Jacob Sprenger] — "The Witch Hammer", Malleus Maleficarum... With the application of torture to thousands of women, in accordance with the precepts laid down in the Malleus, it was not difficult to extract masses of proof... The poor creatures writhing on the rack, held in horror by those who had been nearest and dearest to them, anxious only for death to relieve their sufferings, confessed to anything and everything that would satisfy the inquisitors and judges... Under the doctrine of "excepted cases," there was no limit to torture for persons accused of heresy or witchcraft.

    Given this bloody, hateful history, it’s not surprising that women have always held very subservient positions in Christian churches. In fact, there appear to have been no female clergy in any Christian church prior to the 20th century (with the exception of those who posed as men, such as Pope Joan), and even today a great many Christian sects (most notably the Catholic Church) continue to resist ordaining female clergy. While a few liberal Protestant churches have ordained women in recent years, it’s difficult to see this as a great step forward for women; it’s easier to see it as analogous to the Ku Klux Klan’s appointing a few token blacks as Klaxons.

    As for the improvements in the status of women over the last two centuries, the Christian churches either did nothing to support them or actively opposed them. This is most obvious as regards women’s control over their own bodies. Organized Christianity has opposed this from the start, and as late as the 1960s the Catholic Church was still putting its energies into the imposition of laws prohibiting access to contraceptives. Having lost that battle, Christianity has more recently put its energies into attempts to outlaw the right of women to abortion.

    Many of those leading the fight for women’s rights have had no illusions about the misogynistic nature of Christianity. These women included Mary Wollstonecraft, Victoria Woodhull, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and Margaret Sanger (whose slogan, “No God. No master,” remains relevant to this day).
     
    Christianity is homophobic.

    Christianity from its beginnings has been markedly homophobic. The biblical basis for this homophobia lies in the story of Sodom in Genesis, and in Leviticus.

        Leviticus 18:22 reads: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination"

        Leviticus 20:13 reads: "If a man lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them"

    This sounds remarkably harsh, yet Leviticus proscribes a great many other things, declares many of them "abominations," and prescribes the death penalty for several other acts, some of which are shockingly picayune.

        Leviticus 17:10–13 prohibits the eating of blood sausage

        Leviticus 11:6–7 prohibits the eating of "unclean" hares and swine

        Leviticus 11:10 declares shellfish "abominations"

        Leviticus 20:9 prescribes the death penalty for cursing one’s father or mother

        Leviticus 20:10 prescribes the death penalty for adultery

        Leviticus 20:14 prescribes the penalty of being burnt alive for having a three-way with one’s wife and mother-in-law

        Leviticus 20:15 declares,

            "And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast" (which seems rather unfair to the poor beast).

    (One suspects that American Christians have never attempted to pass laws enforcing Leviticus 20:15, because if passed and enforced such laws would decimate both the rural, Bible-Belt population and the cattle industry.)

    Curiously, given the multitude of prohibitions in Leviticus, the vast majority of present-day Christians have chosen to focus only upon Leviticus 20:13, the verse calling for the death penalty for homosexual acts. And at least some of them haven’t been averse to acting on it. (To be fair, some Christian "reconstructionists" are currently calling for institution of the death penalty for adultery and atheism as well as for "sodomy.")

    Throughout history, homosexuality has been illegal in Christian lands, and the penalties have been severe. In the Middle Ages, strangled gay men were sometimes placed on the wood piles at the burning of witches (hence the term "faggot"). One member of the British royalty caught having homosexual relations suffered an even more grisly fate: Edward II’s penalty was being held down while a red hot poker was jammed through his rectum and intestines.

    In more modern times, countless gay people have been jailed for years for the victimless "crime" of having consensual sex. It was only in 2003 that the Supreme Court struck down the felony laws on the books in many American states prescribing lengthy prison terms for consensual "sodomy." And many Christians would love to reinstate those laws.

    Thus the current wave of gay bashings and murders of gay people should come as no surprise. Christians can find justification for such violence in the Bible and also in the hate-filled sermons issuing from all too many pulpits in this country. If history is any indication, the homophobic messages in those sermons will continue to be issued for many years to come.
     
    The Bible is not a reliable guide to Christ’s teachings.

    Mark, the oldest of the Gospels, was written at least 30 years after Christ’s death, and the newest of them might have been written more than 200 years after his death. These texts have been amended, translated, and re-translated so often that it’s extremely difficult to gauge the accuracy of current editions—even aside from the matter of the accuracy of texts written decades or centuries after the death of their subject.

    This is such a problem that the Jesus Seminar, a colloquium of over 200 Protestant Gospel scholars mostly employed at religious colleges and seminaries, undertook in 1985 a multi-year investigation into the historicity of the statements and deeds attributed to Jesus in the New Testament. They concluded that only 18% of the statements and 16% of the deeds attributed to Jesus had a high likelihood of being historically accurate.

    So, in a very real sense fundamentalists—who claim to believe in the literal truth of the Bible—are not followers of Jesus Christ; rather, they are followers of those who, decades or centuries later, put words in his mouth.
     
    The Bible, Christianity’s basic text, is riddled with contradictions.

    There are a number of glaring contradictions in the Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments, and including some within the same books. A few examples:

        ". . . God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."
        (James:1:13)

        "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."
        (Genesis 22:1)

        ". . . for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever."
        (Jeremiah 3:12)

        "Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever. Thus saith the Lord."
        (Jeremiah 17:4)

        "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."
        (John 5:31, J.C. speaking)

        "I am one that bear witness of myself . . ."
        (John 8:18, J.C. speaking)

    and last but not least:

        "I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
        (Genesis 32:30)

        "No man hath seen God at any time."
        (John 1:18)

        "And I [God] will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts..."
        (Exodus 33:23)

    Christian apologists typically attempt to explain away such contradictions by claiming that the fault lies in the translation, and that there were no contradictions in the original text. It’s difficult to see how this could be so, given how direct many biblical contradictions are; but even if these Christian apologetics held water, it would follow that every part of the Bible should be as suspect as the contradictory sections, thus reinforcing the previous point: that the Bible is not a reliable guide to Christ’s words.
     
    Christianity borrowed its central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions.

    The ancient world was rife with tales of virgin births, miracle-working saviors, tripartite gods, Gods taking human form, Gods arising from the dead, heavens and hells, and days of judgment. In addition to the myths, many of the ceremonies of ancient religions also match those of that syncretic latecomer, Christianity.

    To cite but one example (there are many others), consider Mithraism, a Persian religion predating Christianity by centuries. Mithra, the savior of the Mithraic religion and a God who took human form, was born of a virgin; he belonged to the holy trinity and was a link between heaven and Earth; and he ascended into heaven after his death.

    His followers believed in heaven and hell, looked forward to a day of judgment, and referred to Mithra as "the Light of the World." They also practiced baptism (for purification purposes) and ritual cannibalism—the eating of bread and the drinking of wine to symbolize the eating and drinking of the God’s body and blood. Given all this, Mithra’s birthday should come as no surprise: December 25th; this event was, of course, celebrated by Mithra’s followers at midnight.

    Mithraism is but the most striking example of the appearance of these myths and ceremonies prior to the advent of Christianity. They appear—in more scattered form—in many other pre-Christian religions.

A Final Word: These are but some of the major problems attending Christianity, and they provide overwhelming reasons for its abandon-ment. (Even if you discount half, two-thirds, or even three-quarters of these arguments, the conclusion is still irresistible.)
 
References

   1. A friend who read the first draft of this manuscript notes:

        “My moronic sister-in-law once told me that God found her parking spots near the front door at Wal-mart! Years later, when she developed a brain tumor, I concluded that God must have gotten tired of finding parking places for her and gave her the tumor so that she could get handicapped plates.”

    As Nietzsche put it in The Anti-Christ:

        “that little hypocrites and half-crazed people dare to imagine that on their account the laws of nature are constantly broken—such an enhancement of every kind of selfishness to infinity, to impudence, cannot be branded with sufficient contempt. And yet Christianity owes its triumph to this pitiable flattery of personal vanity.”

    2. The Westboro Baptist Church directly addresses the question of its hatefulness and cruelty on its web site (www.godhatesfags.com):

        "Why do you preach hate? Because the Bible preaches hate. For every one verse about God's mercy, love, compassion, etc., there are two verses about His vengeance, hatred, wrath, etc."

    3. The repeated mention of this sin in medieval ecclesiastical writings leads one to wonder how widespread this practice was among the Christian faithful, including the Christian clergy. One 8th-century penitential (list of sins and punishments) quoted in A.A. Hadden’s Councils and Ecclesiastical Documents states:

        "If a cleric has fornicated with a quadruped let him do penance for, if he is a simple cleric, two years, if a deacon, three years, if a priest, seven years, if a bishop ten years."

    4. Given his religious background, and that his cult mixed Christianity with UFO beliefs, Applewhite was quite probably aware of the divine approbation of self-castration in Matthew 19:12:

        "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: EyeBelieve on June 24, 2011, 12:23:41 AM
The results of this are well known: scientific knowledge advanced hardly an inch in the over 1000 years from the rise of orthodox Christianity in the fourth century to the 1500s, and the populace was mired in the deepest squalor and ignorance, living in dire fear of the supernatural—believing in paranormal explanations for the most ordinary natural events. This ignorance had tragic results: it made the populace more than ready to accept witchcraft as an explanation for everything from illness to thunderstorms, and hundreds of thousands of women paid for that ignorance with their lives.

Joo lies: even Wiki admits to the important developments in Euro medieval technology:

Medieval technology refers to the technology used in medieval Europe under Christian rule. After the Renaissance of the 12th century, medieval Europe saw a radical change in the rate of new inventions, innovations in the ways of managing traditional means of production, and economic growth.[2] The period saw major technological advances, including the adoption of gunpowder, the invention of vertical windmills, spectacles, mechanical clocks, and greatly improved water mills, building techniques (Gothic style, medieval castle), agriculture in general (three-field crop rotation).

The development of water mills from its ancient origins was impressive, and extended from agriculture to sawmills both for timber and stone. By the time of the Domesday Book, most large villages had turnable mills, around 6,500 in England alone.[3] Water-power was also widely used in mining for raising ore from shafts, crushing ore, and even powering bellows.

European technical advancements in the 12th to 14th centuries were either built on long-established techniques in medieval Europe, originating from Roman and Byzantine antecedents, or adapted from cross-cultural exchanges through trading networks with the Islamic world, China, and India. Often, the revolutionary aspect lay not in the act of invention itself, but in its technological refinement and application to political and economic power. Though gunpowder had long been known to the Chinese, it was the Europeans who developed and perfected its military potential, precipitating European expansion and eventual imperialism in the Modern Era.

Also significant in this respect were advances in maritime technology. Advances in shipbuilding included the multi-masted ships with lateen sails, the sternpost-mounted rudder and the skeleton-first hull construction. Along with new navigational techniques such as the dry compass, the Jacob's staff and the astrolabe, these allowed economic and military control of all seas adjacent to Europe and enabled the global navigational achievements of the dawning Age of Exploration.

At the turn to the Renaissance, Gutenberg’s invention of mechanical printing made possible a dissemination of knowledge to a wider population, that would not only lead to a gradually more egalitarian society, but one more able to dominate other cultures, drawing from a vast reserve of knowledge and experience. The technical drawings of late medieval artist-engineers Guido da Vigevano and Villard de Honnecourt can be viewed as forerunners of later Renaissance works such as Taccola or da Vinci.

Joo MSM constantly likes to remind us that ancient Europeans were primitive cave dwellers yet on occasion archaeologists discover ancient artifacts, re finely crafted jewelry etc that show the opposite.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: pope daniel on June 24, 2011, 04:27:26 AM
Eyebelieve is correct, christanity took the european culture from scantily clad tribal african style barbarism to the height of civilization. now these jews want to reverse it
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: wag on June 24, 2011, 06:43:09 AM
Eyebelieve is correct, christanity took the european culture from scantily clad tribal african style barbarism to the height of civilization. now these jews want to reverse it

Christianity only coopted the existing feudal political structures.  Christianity otherwise did a lot more harm than good, with the oppression and crusade wars.  The good came from the folk themselves and their natural abilities.   
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Sue on June 24, 2011, 04:01:27 PM
Joo MSM constantly likes to remind us that ancient Europeans were primitive cave dwellers yet on occasion archaeologists discover ancient artifacts, re finely crafted jewelry etc that show the opposite.

Media Tempestas

Historians divide the time since the birth of Christ into three parts, Ancient Times, the Middle Ages, and Modern Times. The Middle Ages is a period of dark and turbulent semi-barbarism lying between two phases of civilization—ancient Paganism and modern Paganism. Between was the time when Christianity ruled unchallenged—the Media Tempestas.

The Middle Ages is a stretch of a thousand years called mediæval and feudal, words that are like the word dinosaur—they are used pejoratively. They mean backward, barbaric, primitive or, at the least, old fashioned—the antithesis of our clever and sophisticated modern times. The reason is that in that thousand years, crime, vice, violence, drunkenness, disease, mortality, brutality, exploitation and injustice were immeasurably worse than before or after. Yet, they are the time when the church was at its most powerful, when cathedrals were built, bishops lived in palaces and many of the male population were churchmen—monks, priests, bishops, friars, templars, hospitallers, priors, lay brothers.

The Middle Ages extend from about 500 AD, when Paganism and the Roman Empire went extinct, to about 1500 AD. The half of this period from about 500 to 1100 are the Dark Ages. The Christian excuse for the Dark Ages is that the degradation of Europe was due to the barbarian invasions, which it took the Church several centuries to correct. The barbarians who supposedly caused the Dark Ages through their invasions were not only Christians already, they were not ignorant. Though “barbarian” to us means savage and ignorant, that is largely Church propaganda. Originally, “barbarian” simply meant foreign. Foreign languages to the Greeks, sounded like people murmuring, “baa, baa, baa,” just as the Goons discovered that several people saying, “rhubarb, rhubarb,” repeatedly mimicked a room full of people talking quietly, as at a cocktail party. The Greeks, in their arrogance, thought that foreigners were inferior in civilisation to them, but they did not necessarily think all foreigners were savage and ignorant.

Because the Middle Ages have the redeeming feature of mediæval art, the glorious cathedrals, illuminated missals, wonderful tapestries and exquisite paintings, all of which are important but come from the latter half of the Middle Ages, the church pretends it pulled Europe through the Dark Ages. It ignores the truth—the church was largely responsible for them. One of the ironies of life—but only for Christians—is that the barbarian invasions and the Dark Ages coincided with the application of God’s plan to Europe.

What is there besides the art? The crafts guilds, which were heretical in origin, were for only a minority of craftsmen and were fiercely resisted by the Church until it found them irrepressible. What else is there? Nothing. The rest is misery, suffering, exploitation by priest and noble, appalling superstition, utter lawlessness, dense ignorance.

In the Middle Ages, the church imposed the strictest obedience to authority and for centuries nominally free men were slaves, tied to the land, even if they did have a lot of holy days. The feudal order was meant to reflect heaven on earth—obedience to God via one’s superiors. Children obeyed their parents, their parents were their lord’s vassals and had to obey him, the lord was the king’s vassal, laymen obeyed the clergy, monks obeyed their abbot, clergy and laymen obeyed bishops who themselves were feudal lords, bishops and kings obeyed the Pope—at least in theory. Originality and creativity had to await a commission from the church or a lord, otherwise it was anathema. The church had created itself as a reborn Imperium Romanum with the Pope as its emperor and Latin as its language.

The emergence of the new romance languages and particularly Provençal literature from about 1100 marks the end of the Dark ages, at least in culture, though the heights of savagery had yet to be reached in the crusades, the inquisition and the witch hunts, taking us right up to modern times. The literature of the Dark ages was in Latin bent to the needs of the divines of the Church, and its poetry was devoted to hymns. Even the vernacular literature was based on, or influenced by, Latin, much of it simply being translated. There was a body of Teutonic, Celtic, Greek and Arabic literature that appeared alongside the Latin, Teutonic and Celtic being the prime influences, and, though they influenced modern forms from the twelfth century, they were distinctly unmodern. The change was dramatic!

The Church claims it preserved the classical tradition of antiquity which it had destroyed brick by brick and book by book. It only preserved some favoured works as classic Latin and Greek texts for clerics to use to learn Latin and Greek purely for devotional purposes. S Boniface (675-754) stated clearly that the reason he wanted his priests and missionaries to understand Latin was to understand the scriptures and liturgy. The church had no intention or ambition to preserve wonderful works of Pagan authors. It preserved them almost by accident while burning books in barnfuls. It was only as men rediscovered lost techniques and discovered new ones that eventully the Media Tempestas gave way to the Reformation and the Renaissance. The discovery of printing was a major factor.

Some men throughout the Middle Ages had never been satisfied with the corruption and open self-seeking of the church and its servants. Reform movements had always sought a simpler, purer faith like that of the Apostolic Age that was more purely Essene. Eventually there came the Great Reformation with just those aims and from them came secular movements with equivalent slogans. Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, the Secular Trinity, reflected the values of the Essenes who spawned Christianity in the Apostolic Age.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Sue on June 24, 2011, 04:12:26 PM
The Making of the Middle Ages

The Goths, Vandals, Franks, and other Teutonic tribes, in the fifth century, did indeed destroy the superstructure of Roman civilization, but Rome, which had withstood the pressure from the barbarians for a millennium, succumbed after the Christians had been in control for less than 150 years.

The northern barbarians left Europe with our nation states, many laws, customs and traditions—eventually the governments and constitutions that made up mediæval Christendom. They were farmers and animal breeders, not unusually uncouth except to the urban sophisticate, and had to force their way into the Roman sphere simply because the might of the Huns pressed them from the east. They were barbarians mainly in the sense that they spoke no Latin or Greek, but otherwise were much like any Roman bucolic, and many had lived within the boundaries of the empire as “Federati”. The supposed barbarians had their own oral or written literature, and mythologies, though some of the forms used, such as alliterative verse, might have seemed odd to us. Common strands in Aryan culture from Ireland to India suggest that European literature was not exclusive to a few people. Dark Age ignorance was the child of Christian bigotry.

And these “barbarians” were not so barbaric as some imagine. At the beginning of the second century, when the Romans were under the conscientious Stoic emperors, the historian Tacitus wrote a work on the Teutonic tribes of the north, The Morals of the Germans. His aim was to shame the Romans by holding up to them the superior standards of the Teutons! It was poetic licence, so to speak, but had to contain sufficient truth to be convincing.

Tradition has given the Vandals, who overran Spain and Africa, so terrible a reputation that we use their name still for destroyers or semi-barbarians. Yet, the fifth-century Christian priest Salvianus depicts both Goths and Vandals as stern Puritans shocked by the immorality of Roman Christians. He tells us that when the Vandals took Christian Carthage, they set about a purification of morals which disturbed the inhabitants far more than the loss of political freedom did. And within two centuries of their adoption of Christianity these Germanic peoples, whose Pagan ideals had kept them chaste for ages, were more flagrantly immoral than the Romans had been.

These “barbarians” wanted to accept civilization. Some had risen to the highest positions in the Roman army and state even before the fifth century. They were already Christians. The chief Germanic tribes which poured over Italy, Gaul, and Spain in the fifth century had already accepted Christianity, and few Christians have such superstitious awe of the power of priests and bishops as converted barbarians.

These Teutons, masters of Europe and pupils of the Church, blended their old law and ideals with the Roman in an attempt to begin civilization anew, and in every case the Church hampered and ultimately thwarted them. Barbarians are not responsible for the Dark Ages. They brought with them an acceptance of law and high ideals. They were rough and rustic, but not rude or crude. They needed a king deaf to the clergy but they bowed to the church, and the church was no force for civilization. The Church is to blame for the Dark Ages.
The Use of Literacy

The Christian administration of the Empire from the fourth century, set about creating a desert of the Pagan culture that had given us Classical and Hellenistic Antiquity. The Dark Ages ensued. The church controlled paper-making, publishing and writing. In only a few hundred years, only the topmost levels of the clergy could read and write. Many of the monks copying their bibles were simply copying the shapes of the letters as a pious duty, just as the post-nuclear monks in Miller’s, A Canticle for Liebowitz, uncomprehendingly copied electrical circuits, imagining them to be holy symbols from God. They prove it by making copying errors which could not have been made by a literate man. A gothic “f” looks rather like an “s” but no literate person could mistake the two. Doubtless they were allowed to illuminate the manuscripts with their own designs to alleviate the excruciating boredom of copying what, to them, must have looked like endless pages of tedious symbols.

Nevertheless, the Church controlled literacy and writing. Only its own people knew how to communicate by the written word. Again Paganism was at a disadvantage. The only schools were Christian schools. World famous academies founded by philosophers as prominent as Plato were closed by the Christians—just shut. Almost a thousand years of educational excellence—shut! For dogma. The Pagan teachers were impoverished, sometimes murdered or scattered to foreign countries like Germany or Persia, and their libraries stolen. The church was convinced that ignorance was godliness and writing was necessary only to propagate the holy books.

Illiterate societies substitute for writing an oral tradition that is often noble and highly creative. Illiterate people often have prodigious memories by our standards but an immense effort would be needed for memorising a whole culture.The memory man in John Buchan’s, The Thirty Nine Steps, could recite the secret plans easily as he died but Druids had to train for twenty or thirty years to learn the corpus of Druid lore which could have been stored for all by writing. And, was anyone bothered if the poet extemporised?

An ability needed by the top bards was, like Mozart and the musicians of his time, the skill of inventing variations on a theme. The young Druid, like all tyros, had to learn what he was set, but as a mature and respected bard he had to modify them and adapt them for this king and that. His originality would have been cheered not his ability to recite what they had already heard, though the elements of the story were fixed. What then came down over the centuries? The Declaration of Independence remains as it was at first because it is written. If it were sung by bards, it is unlikely it would have stayed as it was. So, in a self-imposed world of illiteracy, the Church with its few comprehending clerics, had a great advantage in preserving its tradition.

Worse, for us wanting to know about the Druids or Paganism in the Middle Ages, is that spoken words fade on the wind. We know nothing about the Druid Shakespeare, yet the Druidic tradition of poetry competitions lasted in Ireland until only a hundred years ago when the remaining traditions were collected. Welsh oral tradition died and what now exists is only a revival. Teutonic and Iberian traditions were also oral and have left nothing much. Nearly all of these oral cultures were driven underground by what was considered civilisation—Christianity. An oral tradition that is also secret might leave no trace at all—just what the Christians wanted.

A parallel situation, oddly, existed in Judah after the exile when the Hebrew scriptures were compiled. The ignorant peasants that had not been selected by their conquerors for transportation to Babylon because they had no skills, and the aged, preserved the oral tradition of the children of Israel for the years that their fellow nationals were away.

When the descendants of the exiles returned they had been commissioned by Cyrus to build a temple. They were placed in control of the country instructed to start a new religion and keep the country as a model puppet state of the Persian Empire. The locals were all against it, but the new people were in power, with the authority of the Persian king and the control of writing. They refused all of the pleas of the locals to participate in the new project and rewrote all the old legends to suit their improved religion of Yehouah.

The simpletons, called the Am ha-Aretz had one role only in this—to submit themselves to the new god and his new priesthood, who pretended they, themselves, had the continuous authority of Aaron and Zadok. Now the only tradition that remains in Judaism is the one allowed by the priests returning from exile because they controlled publishing. Control of writing and publishing is an immense power.

The Jewish scriptures were gathered together and re-written to suit the new hierarchy. Now, the records that have come to us from those literate Persian Jews are central to the Christian religion and have powerfully conditioned our culture for two millennia—they are the Christian Old Testament. The other major influence on us was the Classical and Hellenistic culture of the Mediterranean. No other ancient cultures could leave such marks because their words were not set down, but faded on the wind. Yet, the product of the machinations of the CIA of the ancient Persian kings are esteemed today by Jews and Christians alike as the word of God, the creator of all things. Cyrus would have been astonished.

All we know about the Media Tempestas, apart from archaeological evidence, comes to us from the medieval clergy. They were not ready to give us comprehensive accounts of the beliefs and superstitions of the “vulgus,” but they did let us infer it from their frequent denouncements, and the evolution of church practice to accommodate it. Culture is also usually more interested in the growth of the new than in the decline of the old. The long, slow decline of Paganism was not directly chronicled mainly because to do so would be to accept that it had not died instantly when Christianity became the religion of kings. But the announcement of its death was premature and, though old, frail and critical, it exerted its influence on the Church for over a thousand years—perhaps until today, when its merits are again being seen and some Christians have had to invent Creation Spirituality in reply. They might see the true resurrection—the resurrection of Paganism.

Education in the Middle Ages -- more here: http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0800DarkAge.php
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Sue on June 24, 2011, 04:32:31 PM
Education in the Middle Ages

Pope Gregory, a monk, ruled the Church from 590 to 604 AD. Fr J McCabe tells us the triumph of Christianity was now complete, Paganism and civilization were dead. Rome had not been destroyed by the Goths, but decade by decade, it fell into ruin at the hands of the forty thousand miserable and grossly ignorant Christians who now moved amongst the decaying buildings that had once housed a million. Europe was correspondingly desolate.

Gregory, before be became a monk, had been a Roman patrician, a rich man of the standards of the time, even Prefect of Rome. Gregory pronounced the end of the world. A man with possessions, the bible said, had more hope of getting through the eye of a needle than of entering the kingdom of heaven. So the men who had large estates in Italy passed them over to the Papacy and joined monasteries waitung for the day that Christians have always waited for—when they would meet Jesus, as they say today. The pope became a prince, and a few more forgeries, a century later, would make popes kings. Gregory knew that the last trump would soon sound in the ears of the mortals, and so nothing but virtue mattered.

He heard that Bishop Desiderius, of Vienne in Gaul, was conducting a small school, and he wrote him a letter:

    After that we heard a thing that cannot be repeated without a feeling of shame—namely, that you are teaching grammar to some. This troubled us so greatly, and filled us with so deep a disdain, that we fell from our former praise of you to mourning and sorrow, because the praise of Jove must never be heard from the mouth that praises Christ. Think how grave and horrible it is for a bishop to repeat what even a religious layman should not. And, though our beloved son the presbyter Candidus denied the affair, at our pressing inquiry, and tried to excuse you, ye have not lost the suspicion, because it is so execrable for this to be said of a priest that it must be strictly investigated.

Desiderius had to give up “studying trifles and secular letters” to return to the pope’s favor. Apologists try to maintain that Bishop Desiderius had been teaching the classics in church. The letter shows he was not accused of that and one still has to puzzle about the nature of the crime even if it is true.

After Gregory’s death, the tradition in the Church, was that the pope had burned the old Roman libraries which still remained on the Capitoline and the Palatine Hills. Why should such a tradition be false? Civilization was to be killed. Gregory even pours scorn on the innocent rules of the grammarian Donatus, the teacher of S Jerome, an elementary form of profane learning.

The ignorance introduced by Christianity was profound. A bishop of Laon in France of the eleventh century says: “There is more than one bishop who cannot name the letters of the alphabet on his fingers”. Priests had no understanding of the Latin they mumbled. Even the secretaries of the Papacy at Rome sent out their documents in the most atrocious Latin, full of grammatical errors. Kings and nobles could not sign their names. Their signatures had to be cut for them in wood and stamped on documents. The illiteracy of Europe increased to more than ninety-nine percent.

The literary activity of the monks is as empty a legend as that of the early martyrs. The French writer, Montalembert is responsible for the myth, claiming that “every monastery was a school”. Not one monastery in a hundred educated even its own monks. Even schools for teaching clerics how to read the bible and the Breviary were so obscure and paltry that the names of them have been lost.

The monks copied books, Montalembert says, and, in the monastery of Novaless, there were six thousand seven hundred hand-written books! The Moors in Spain had seventy public libraries besides private collections, one of which contained six hundred thousand books and, in Pagan days, the library of Alexandria had seven hundred thousand books. The Julian library at Rome which, with others, the pope is said to have burned, contained one hundred and twenty thousand books.

At the close of the thirteenth century, the most intellectual and scholarly period of the Middle Ages, not one monk in the largest and greatest monastery of France, S Gall, could read or write! From the days of St Augustine, who railled against monks within a century of their appearance in Europe, until the Reformation, serious Christian literature is full of stern indictments of the idleness and the hypocrisy of the monks.

Christians have a vague idea that Plato and Aristotle and all the Greek works we so justly treasure were preserved by the monks of the Middle Ages. No piece of Greek literature was preserved by monks except perhaps, Aristotle’s Dialectics. Until the time of Charlemagne, who made the monks work, there was not a monastery in Europe that rendered any service whatever in connection with classical literature.

Do Christians really imagine pious monks spending the hours between prayers copying the obscenities of Apuleius, the amorous verse of Horace, the adventures of the gods and goddesses in Ovid? How does it square with pope Gregory the Great’s attitude to the most elementary education?—and he was a monk!

Greek literature was preserved in the Greek Byzantine Empire, and was conveyed to Europe by the Jews and Moors. As to Latin literature, religious monasteries regarded it, like Tertullian, as “inspired by the devil”, and would not look at it, and the bulk of the monasteries were too gross and ignorant to do any copying. Just because an abbot here and a bishop there liked a cup of wine, a maid and sensual matter in general, and preserved an odd book of verse, it is no cause for Christians to claim they preserved Latin authors. Copies even of the Latin classics were exceedingly rare in the Middle Ages, although a parchment-book lasted practically forever.

The copying that the monks did in their writing rooms, was of the bible and the Fathers of the Church—Christian literature. A famous scholar of the early twentieth century says bluntly that the monks destroyed more classical works than the barbarians.

(http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/illuminatingmonk0.jpg)  Scholarship
Most monks were illiterate and just copied the symbols they saw without understanding most of what they meant

The Latin of Gaul was in close contact with the Latin of Italy, but the vocabulary of Gaulish Latin included a lot of Gallic words. By the end of the fifth century, no one in Gaul spoke the Celtic language. Everyone spoke Latin, and, though it differed from classical Latin, especially in the Gallic words adopted into it, it did not differ much from the forms of Latin spoken elsewhere in the dying western Roman empire. Written Latin, however, was much closer to classical Latin, and in literate communities, the written word acts as a tether to stop the spoken language from wandering far from it. The trouble was that the Christians only taught writing to clerics, leaving the population illiterate.

Of the barbarians that invaded France, the Franks were pagans, but the church still got on well with the Frankish kings, indeed rather better than it did initially with the Arian Christian barbarians like the Visigoths with whom the Church had theological differences. So, even among the Franks, Latin enjoyed great prestige and was used for all official communication at the height of the Frankish empire. Even the Salic Law, the oral tribal code of the Salian Franks was written down in Latin. But the lack of general literacy meant that written Latin began to decay, taking its cues from the Vulgar Latin spoken by the people. Peter Rickard, a Cambridge University French scholar, wrote:

A weakening, through ignorance, through loss of tradition, and through chaotic conditions, of the norms of classical Latin, and the increasing influence of the spoken language led to a written Latin which is conspicuously non-classical.

P Rickard, A History of the French Language

Bishop Gregory of Tours (538-594 AD) wrote in Latin a few years before he died, the History of the Franks (591 AD).
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: EyeBelieve on June 24, 2011, 06:08:44 PM
Christianity only coopted the existing feudal political structures.

OK, but after Rome collapsed it left a big vacuum.  I don't think it's entirely fair to blame Christians for the mess left behind.  Similarly today a lot of people are cheering the fall of the Anglo-American empire when (despite it's faults) we're staring at a possible new Dark Ages.

Quote
Christianity otherwise did a lot more harm than good, with the oppression and crusade wars.  The good came from the folk themselves and their natural abilities.

Europe has abandoned Christianity since, say, WWII & do we see improvements?  No, we see corruption, negative population growth, enslavement to the banksters.  BTW the conventional view of Crusades is that they were a religious movement.  LaRouche claims that the Crusades were instigated by Venetian bankers to weaken & divide Europe, much as the current GWOT is done to destroy the US.

Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: wag on June 24, 2011, 06:20:16 PM
Europe has abandoned Christianity since, say, WWII & ...

WWII restored control back to jew bankers.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: EyeBelieve on June 24, 2011, 06:21:34 PM
Media Tempestas

Church gets blamed for the Dark Ages but somehow is denied credit for the Renaissance which the MSM implies was a result of closet atheists.  Even today the Church does a better job at education than the public schools despite the Joo attacks resulting in lower church attendance & contributions.  Despite the huge influence of the Church in old Europe, I feel it's too selective to place all blame for stagnation or OTOH all praise for progress.  It was only one part of the picture.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: EyeBelieve on June 24, 2011, 06:26:07 PM
WWII restored control back to jew bankers.

First, pre-WWII, Europe & much of the rest of the world was already corrupted by Rothschilds etc.  Post WWII, of course, things got even worse with Germany under Zio-London thumb.  Seems that would prove my point re Christian culture having some benefits, at least as being better than some of the alternatives.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: pope daniel on June 24, 2011, 06:30:32 PM
Christianity only coopted the existing feudal political structures.  Christianity otherwise did a lot more harm than good, with the oppression and crusade wars.  The good came from the folk themselves and their natural abilities.

we'd like to think that europeans are the master race but really the chinese/japanese/indian had established cultured civilizations long before the european discarded his animal pelts. the asian empires however encountered a few thousand year stagnation where the european christian society then exceeded in science

western classical music is a good example..indian traditional music hasn't changed much since 5000BC
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: laconas on June 24, 2011, 07:44:18 PM
Quote
Chaz Bufe from Scribd Website

            Reasons

            Christianity is based on fear
            Christianity preys on the innocent
            Christianity is based on dishonesty
            Christianity is extremely egocentric
            Christianity breeds arrogance, a chosen-people mentality
            Christianity breeds authoritarianism
            Christianity is cruel
            Christianity is anti-intellectual, anti-scientific
            Christianity has a morbid, unhealthy preoccupation with sex
            Christianity produces sexual misery
            Christianity has an exceedingly narrow, legalistic view of morality
            Christianity encourages acceptance of real evils while focusing on imaginary evils
            Christianity depreciates the natural world
            Christianity models hierarchical, authoritarian organization
            Christianity sanctions slavery
            Christianity is misogynistic
            Christianity is homophobic
            The Bible is not a reliable guide to Christ's teachings
            The Bible is riddled with contradictions
            Christianity borrowed its central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions



Christianity should probably be abandoned, but for none of the reasons mentioned in the article. It should be abandoned because it is no longer a force; it has been weakened to the point of making less than useless and even helpful to Jews. Once the so called Christian leaders agreed to the new Jewish rules of separating God and religion from politics the people of Christian religions should have walked away and not look back.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Sue on June 24, 2011, 08:23:17 PM


Christianity should probably be abandoned, but for none of the reasons mentioned in the article. It should be abandoned because it is no longer a force; it has been weakened to the point of making less than useless and even helpful to Jews. Once the so called Christian leaders agreed to the new Jewish rules of separating God and religion from politics the people of Christian religions should have walked away and not look back.

I can go along with that. I fall under rubric of 'Christian', though I am not a believer, neither were my parents.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: laconas on June 24, 2011, 08:35:28 PM
I can go along with that. I fall under rubric of 'Christian', though I am not a believer, neither were my parents.

Your mom and dad walked away probably because it served no benefit to lives. Simple as that.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: EyeBelieve on June 24, 2011, 09:03:58 PM
we'd like to think that europeans are the master race but really the chinese/japanese/indian had established cultured civilizations long before the european discarded his animal pelts. the asian empires however encountered a few thousand year stagnation where the european christian society then exceeded in science

western classical music is a good example..indian traditional music hasn't changed much since 5000BC

Interesting example.  I love the entrancing sound of sitars etc but when I researched Indian trad music I was surprised to learn much of it, esp the instrumental ragas were loosely based on certain structure & included large amount of improvisation, seemingly a corrupt emotion-based form like American Jazz.  Contrast that to Euro classical music which was highly structured with no improvisation & meant to convey definite positive themes.

MSM tells us Beethoven, Bach etc were simple tunesmiths & lumps in Romantic (emotional) music with classical (science & reason-based) music.  LaRouche stoutly defends the western classicists & even goes to lengths to criticize modern pitch as well as other modern corruptions ie slight differences in phrasing that supposedly serve to distort & render meaningless the true import. Last time I heard MSM mention classical music was a tru-life jail show where the female prison guard liked "classical music" on her car radio to relax while driving home!   >:(
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: EyeBelieve on June 24, 2011, 09:17:29 PM
Your mom and dad walked away probably because it served no benefit to lives. Simple as that.

Then how to explain the constant phenomenon of prison religion?  When all practical hope is lost folks seek comfort & direction from greater things than their constrained existence.  I remember driving thru Bavaria on a Sunday morning & hearing the Alpine folk music on the radio (religious?  My German skills weren't sufficient to tell) & seeing the townsfolk walking with their kids to church.  Truly touching esp in regard to MSM bs about Germany being a bunch of rootless atheists.  & of course Catholic Bavaria was a stout holdout to current German legalization of abortion.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Sue on June 24, 2011, 11:17:31 PM
Your mom and dad walked away probably because it served no benefit to lives. Simple as that.

I was too young, and it was never really explained to me why they left the church, I just accepted it.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: pope daniel on June 25, 2011, 01:37:05 AM

MSM tells us Beethoven, Bach etc were simple tunesmiths & lumps in Romantic (emotional) music with classical (science & reason-based) music.  LaRouche stoutly defends the western classicists & even goes to lengths to criticize modern pitch as well as other modern corruptions ie slight differences in phrasing that supposedly serve to distort & render meaningless the true import. Last time I heard MSM mention classical music was a tru-life jail show where the female prison guard liked "classical music" on her car radio to relax while driving home!   >:(

beethoven was a catholic who did not refuse final services upon his death, he also read  the bhagavad gita which is essentailly catholicsm 3000 years before its time, hitler was into this also. beethoven also had friends that were freemasons but eventually turned against them http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Alois,_Prince_Lichnowsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Alois,_Prince_Lichnowsky)

yes, equal temperament destroys harmony, noone writes music for F# major anyway
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: wag on June 25, 2011, 05:36:17 AM


Christianity should probably be abandoned, but for none of the reasons mentioned in the article. It should be abandoned because it is no longer a force; it has been weakened to the point of making less than useless and even helpful to Jews. Once the so called Christian leaders agreed to the new Jewish rules of separating God and religion from politics the people of Christian religions should have walked away and not look back.

Simply put, when your god no longer serves you, you need to look for another god.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: laconas on June 25, 2011, 05:47:50 AM
Simply put, when your god no longer serves you, you need to look for another god.

Yep.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: wag on June 25, 2011, 05:59:29 AM
Then how to explain the constant phenomenon of prison religion? 

People will gravitate to something when control is taken away from their lives.  You're down, about to give up, somebody says, why don't you just turn it over all to god/jesus/allah/whatever.  It's a nothing to loose deal, and when people do, they feel a weight lifted from their shoulders.  But this is more just human psychology.  Nothing real changes.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: John Prewett on August 25, 2011, 12:09:10 AM
The world in general and many who deem themself "Christian" think the Great Whore and her children constitute Jesus's Church.   They don't
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Sue on August 30, 2011, 06:25:48 PM
Does anyone here believe in ARMAGEDDON?

(http://www.prophecyandtruth.com/proof.1.jpg)

If so - WHY?

Are our international warmongers following the Bible B.S.?
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: wag on August 30, 2011, 06:57:20 PM
Does anyone here believe in ARMAGEDDON?
It's not entirely irrational to believe this.  I believe the mayans calendar must have a basic in reality, and thus 2012 could be the end of a some real cycle.   I'm actually enthusiastic about it, but I have no great expectations.  Things tend to end in a fizzle or thud rather than bang.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on August 31, 2011, 05:30:55 PM
Joo lies: even Wiki admits to the important developments in Euro medieval technology:

After giving Christianity full credit for the Dark Ages you think it should also get credit recovery from the Christian disaster?
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on August 31, 2011, 06:08:16 PM
Eyebelieve is correct, christanity took the european culture from scantily clad tribal african style barbarism to the height of civilization. now these jews want to reverse it.

The ignorance is amazing. In fact it is so great one has to consider it to be deliberate dissemination of lies. Europe was quite a civilized as ancient Greece and Rome simply not as culturally advanced. Greece spread its advanced to the east by itself. Rome conquered Greece and spread its own culture and that of Greece to Northern and Western Europe except for the lands of the Goths.

Then came Christianity which shut down all non-christian schools and in fact celebrated the destruction of the last of the Platonic schools. All forms of art were reduced from Greek levels to that crude African level you seem to abhor. A quick google of William Wallace should get a link to the one surviving stone carving of him. Not even the oldest of ancient Greek statues is so primitive. It is truly at the African level.

Greek learning and Roman engineering had to be rediscovered after centuries of suppression by Christianity.

I could go on for another thousand words just to cover the broad issues of what Christianity wantonly destroyed. But lets go to the fall of the Roman empire which was caused by the invasion of the invasions of the CHRISTIAN Goths. Why were they in conflict? Seems they were Arian Christians, the wrong kind of Christian. Christian enthusiasm for bloodshed over the most trivial differences is the most obvious aspect of Christianity.

Christianity has contributed nothing to the world. Not to single out Christianity as religions in general are notable for the absence of contribution to society. EVERY field to which Christian apologists can point to as a contribution can also be shown to have languished sterile until freed from Christian influence. For centuries the only plays permitted were morality plays. Name one. After it was possible to create other kinds of plays there was Shakespeare.

Anyone who disagrees is free to post physical evidence to the contrary. I know of only one thing, the flying buttress for architecture.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on August 31, 2011, 06:10:12 PM
Christianity only coopted the existing feudal political structures.  Christianity otherwise did a lot more harm than good, with the oppression and crusade wars.  The good came from the folk themselves and their natural abilities.

Christianity brought down the empire causing the retreat to the primitive feudal system.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: WaltDisney on August 31, 2011, 06:17:02 PM
Christianity brought down the empire causing the retreat to the primitive feudal system.

Sure.

Pagan Europe was so highly advanced...
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: EyeBelieve on August 31, 2011, 06:25:10 PM
After giving Christianity full credit for the Dark Ages you think it should also get credit recovery from the Christian disaster?

I'm not an apologist, I just think it's oversimplifying to put things in such absolute terms.  Religion is always manipulated for political purposes.

The Secrets Known Only to the Inner Elites (http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Library.INNERELITES) describes how Christianity was manipulated for evil purposes while at other times Christian humanist "city builders" strove to overcome the damage.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: wag on August 31, 2011, 06:28:40 PM
Sure.

Pagan Europe was so highly advanced...

Were they safer and happier as pagans?  That's the decider.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: wag on August 31, 2011, 06:31:03 PM
After giving Christianity full credit for the Dark Ages you think it should also get credit recovery from the Christian disaster?

The dark ages were also about burning historical records and replacing them with the jew bible.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on August 31, 2011, 06:56:16 PM
Church gets blamed for the Dark Ages but somehow is denied credit for the Renaissance which the MSM implies was a result of closet atheists.  Even today the Church does a better job at education than the public schools despite the Joo attacks resulting in lower church attendance & contributions.  Despite the huge influence of the Church in old Europe, I feel it's too selective to place all blame for stagnation or OTOH all praise for progress.  It was only one part of the picture.

However there is no disputing the fact that the Christian Church tried to suppress most of the accomplishments of the Renaissance. The only things which can be raised as support of the Renaissance by Christians are those who had in fact rejected essentially all of its moral teachings. That includes all the rich and influential starting with the Pope.

As to the imaginary accomplishments of Catholic schools, REQUIRE them to educate the entire social spectrum of children and watch their reputation vanish. Since at least the 1950s Catholic high schools have required tuition from the parents which obviously cannot be afforded by the poor. The output of Catholic schools exactly correlates with the input.

If you go to an area where the inputs are equal such as colleges and universities the performance of the Catholic ones does not differ from the spectrum of non-catholic ones.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on August 31, 2011, 07:00:38 PM
Then how to explain the constant phenomenon of prison religion?

It is a positive a parole hearings. The façade has to be maintained during probation.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on August 31, 2011, 07:03:36 PM
It's not entirely irrational to believe this.  I believe the mayans calendar must have a basic in reality, and thus 2012 could be the end of a some real cycle.   I'm actually enthusiastic about it, but I have no great expectations.  Things tend to end in a fizzle or thud rather than bang.

If the Mayans had used a bigger rock the end would not be so soon.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on August 31, 2011, 07:04:53 PM
Sure.

Pagan Europe was so highly advanced...

Anyone who believes Jews killed off half of Europe with a plague has no reason to expect to be taken seriously by anyone at any time for any reason.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on August 31, 2011, 07:16:41 PM
I'm not an apologist, I just think it's oversimplifying to put things in such absolute terms.  Religion is always manipulated for political purposes.

The Secrets Known Only to the Inner Elites (http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Library.INNERELITES) describes how Christianity was manipulated for evil purposes while at other times Christian humanist "city builders" strove to overcome the damage.

Christianity became established by Constantine as a political movement. His successor, Julian, was murdered by his own Christian mother because he was reversing the political accomplishments of the Christians. Bloodshed in the name of Christ is such a good thing.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on August 31, 2011, 07:20:23 PM
The dark ages were also about burning historical records and replacing them with the jew bible.

While I agree Christianity is a sect of Judaism with a different take on the same cult god I have to ask you for the proper references for you burning and replacing claim.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: EyeBelieve on August 31, 2011, 11:37:06 PM
However there is no disputing the fact that the Christian Church tried to suppress most of the accomplishments of the Renaissance. The only things which can be raised as support of the Renaissance by Christians are those who had in fact rejected essentially all of its moral teachings. That includes all the rich and influential starting with the Pope.

As to the imaginary accomplishments of Catholic schools, REQUIRE them to educate the entire social spectrum of children and watch their reputation vanish. Since at least the 1950s Catholic high schools have required tuition from the parents which obviously cannot be afforded by the poor. The output of Catholic schools exactly correlates with the input.

If you go to an area where the inputs are equal such as colleges and universities the performance of the Catholic ones does not differ from the spectrum of non-catholic ones.

Chicken & egg?  Many ghetto parents (or even middle-class) feel Catholic schools are superior at least to isolate kids from bad influence.  Catholic schools remain the only major alternative to dumbed-down wild public schools.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: John Prewett on September 01, 2011, 12:18:40 AM

Does anyone here believe in ARMAGEDDON?      If so - WHY?   ......   

I'm confident Armageddon/2nd coming will occur as per Rev 19,...... however, 

Armageddon takes place years after another major prophecied war. 

Namely after the invasion of Israel predicted by Ezekiel 38-39 and Zechariah 12-14.   

CONVERGENCE: 
USA has Muslim supportive POTUS & State Dept.
Nations around Israel recently becoming more hard line Islamic.
September U.N.  recognizes Palestinian state. 
Limited Mid East war erupts.
USA financial house of cards falls.   USA plunged into violent chaos.
Downfall of USA = “green light” for invasion of Israel.
UN authorizes  invasion of Israel.   
Ezekiel 38-39 comes to pass.   

Then world amazing reappearance of the supreme “beast”
[who has had “terrible,  fatal appearing head wound”]
of Rev 13 comes to pass.




Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: wag on September 01, 2011, 04:45:34 AM
While I agree Christianity is a sect of Judaism with a different take on the same cult god I have to ask you for the proper references for you burning and replacing claim.

Just think it out.  Nordics, for one, worshipped their named gods, Oden, etc., which were based upon Sumerian history.  What happened?  There was a switcheroo!
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Sue on September 01, 2011, 09:57:47 AM
I'm confident Armageddon/2nd coming will occur as per Rev 19,...... however, 

Then world amazing reappearance of the supreme “beast”
[who has had “terrible,  fatal appearing head wound”]
of Rev 13 comes to pass.

Revelation 13.

    • 1 – And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea ...
    • 2 – And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the ...
    • 3 – And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly ...

So way back when Jews wrote the bible, brainwashed the masses and after all has been ''mission accomplished''
(centuries of lies, wars and plunder) Jesus will return in full technicolor??? I suppose one has to be a devoted believer...

When I first viewed these two videos a few years back, 'mission accomplished', came to mind.




Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on September 02, 2011, 03:58:55 PM
Chicken & egg?  Many ghetto parents (or even middle-class) feel Catholic schools are superior at least to isolate kids from bad influence.  Catholic schools remain the only major alternative to dumbed-down wild public schools.

What they "feel" does not matter. School performance tracks family income. It also tracks parental involvement. Tuition, even if paid because of moral extortion, increases involvement.

You should also keep in mind that regardless of any performance in Catholic schools there is no evidence of lifetime earnings or standing in any job or profession indicating Catholics are over-represented at the high end.

This of it as a Catholic Head Start. It shows gains while in school but they don't have any lasting benefit.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on September 02, 2011, 04:02:11 PM
I'm confident Armageddon/2nd coming will occur as per Rev 19,...... however, 

Armageddon takes place years after another major prophecied war. 

Namely after the invasion of Israel predicted by Ezekiel 38-39 and Zechariah 12-14.   

CONVERGENCE: 
USA has Muslim supportive POTUS & State Dept.
Nations around Israel recently becoming more hard line Islamic.
September U.N.  recognizes Palestinian state. 
Limited Mid East war erupts.
USA financial house of cards falls.   USA plunged into violent chaos.
Downfall of USA = “green light” for invasion of Israel.
UN authorizes  invasion of Israel.   
Ezekiel 38-39 comes to pass.   

Then world amazing reappearance of the supreme “beast”
[who has had “terrible,  fatal appearing head wound”]
of Rev 13 comes to pass.

A nation of murderers and thieves has no business existing.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on September 02, 2011, 04:03:47 PM
Quote
Quote from: Iron Webmaster on August 31, 2011, 07:20:23 pm
    While I agree Christianity is a sect of Judaism with a different take on the same cult god I have to ask you for the proper references for you burning and replacing claim.
Just think it out.  Nordics, for one, worshipped their named gods, Oden, etc., which were based upon Sumerian history.  What happened?  There was a switcheroo!

If you don't have any evidence just say so.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: EyeBelieve on September 02, 2011, 04:17:24 PM
What they "feel" does not matter. School performance tracks family income. It also tracks parental involvement. Tuition, even if paid because of moral extortion, increases involvement.

You should also keep in mind that regardless of any performance in Catholic schools there is no evidence of lifetime earnings or standing in any job or profession indicating Catholics are over-represented at the high end.

This of it as a Catholic Head Start. It shows gains while in school but they don't have any lasting benefit.

What you say may be true but AFAIK even inner-city Catholic schools with much minority enrollment don't approach the dismal state of nearby public schools.  One can say it has nothing to do with Catholic per se but OTOH no prot denomination has made the effort to promote education in the same way.

BTW don't forget the shortage of old-fashioned knuckle-rapping nun teachers!  In public school 3rd grade I had an old-maid teacher who was similar, didn't tolerate any bs.  We damn sure learned our times-tables or else!  In my city the public schools were decidedly "tracked":  smart students received a half-decent education while bulk of kids were simply passed off thru dummy classes.

I've never attended a Catholic school but I've never heard of them neglecting wide swaths of student population in such a way.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: wag on September 02, 2011, 04:29:58 PM
Just think it out.  Nordics, for one, worshipped their named gods, Oden, etc., which were based upon Sumerian history.  What happened?  There was a switcheroo!

If you don't have any evidence just say so.

I don't have any evidence that you're a jew.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on September 02, 2011, 05:44:04 PM
What you say may be true but AFAIK even inner-city Catholic schools with much minority enrollment don't approach the dismal state of nearby public schools.

The only thing that matters is a statistical improvement in the lives of the students. It is not pointing to one student as an "accomplishment." It is not making it look like an old time school. It is not invoking the worst possible example of a public school and saying Catholic is better than that.

Quote
One can say it has nothing to do with Catholic per se but OTOH no prot denomination has made the effort to promote education in the same way.

Not in the US but the Anglicans have in England. People are losing interest as their "success" is transient and superficial. That is the same as Catholic schools in the US. If it does not produce a life long benefit because of the quality of education what is the point of the extra money? You can also look at countries like Spain where the majority of school are Catholic. Ever heard anyone praise the educational accomplishments of Spain?

Quote
BTW don't forget the shortage of old-fashioned knuckle-rapping nun teachers!  In public school 3rd grade I had an old-maid teacher who was similar, didn't tolerate any bs.  We damn sure learned our times-tables or else!  In my city the public schools were decidedly "tracked":  smart students received a half-decent education while bulk of kids were simply passed off thru dummy classes.

Nuns as teachers were a blight on civilization. Violence towards children is a disgusting sexual deviance. They all needed to get laid real bad. No rational man would marry a woman who hit children which is the simplest reason that 3rd grade teacher couldn't find a husband.

Quote
I've never attended a Catholic school but I've never heard of them neglecting wide swaths of student population in such a way.

I am not certain what you mean. I am talking about the tuition requirements. That automatically "neglects" the children of the families who can't pay.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on September 02, 2011, 05:57:42 PM
I don't have any evidence that you're a jew.

Why would you think that has any connection to the invention you posted?

http://www.freedomportal.net/index.php?topic=21633.0 (http://www.freedomportal.net/index.php?topic=21633.0)

Give it a read.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: wag on September 02, 2011, 07:02:31 PM
Why would you think that has any connection to the invention you posted?

http://www.freedomportal.net/index.php?topic=21633.0 (http://www.freedomportal.net/index.php?topic=21633.0)

Give it a read.

Too long.  Boil it down to three lines or less.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: EyeBelieve on September 02, 2011, 09:08:25 PM
It is not invoking the worst possible example of a public school and saying Catholic is better than that.

Not exactly "worst possible" examples, basically the norm for ghetto Negro schools, majority Hispanic schools in Cali/Texas etc.

Quote
Not in the US but the Anglicans have in England. People are losing interest as their "success" is transient and superficial. That is the same as Catholic schools in the US. If it does not produce a life long benefit because of the quality of education what is the point of the extra money? You can also look at countries like Spain where the majority of school are Catholic. Ever heard anyone praise the educational accomplishments of Spain?

British are perhaps most degraded white folks in the world, C of E membership long a mere token of heritage, wouldn't trust their schools at all.  Dunno about Spanish schools but if Catholic schools have been integrated they've likely also been corrupted.  Even in USA Zio-gov't enforces rules about what Catholic schools can teach, what Catholic hospitals can practice etc.

Quote
Nuns as teachers were a blight on civilization. Violence towards children is a disgusting sexual deviance.

Physical correction of children is hardly deviant violence.  Animals practice this.  Aim is not to hurt but emphasize.  Don't compare it to angry violence of maladjusted folks.

Quote
I am not certain what you mean. I am talking about the tuition requirements. That automatically "neglects" the children of the families who can't pay.

Catholics have some openly tuition-free schools & in many others have quiet assistance/scholarship programs.  I wonder how many truly dedicated parents have their kids turned away on $$ issues?  Seek & ye Shall Find?
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on September 03, 2011, 04:35:10 PM
Too long.  Boil it down to three lines or less.

I decline to cater to your attention span.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: wag on September 03, 2011, 05:18:43 PM
I decline to cater to your attention span.

You decline to get to the heart of the matter.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Jan Robertson on September 03, 2011, 07:16:19 PM

<embed id=VideoPlayback src=http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-2587661313510275113&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash> </embed>


LOL are these people for real ... are they "Christians"? They can't be catholics according to our religious sect here. Their Knowledge of geography makes the mind boggle.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: WaltDisney on September 04, 2011, 04:48:09 AM

 If it does not produce a life long benefit because of the quality of education what is the point of the extra money?
The teaching, the quality of student, the discipline, the teaching of the Sacraments and God, the quality of education...all of which are infinately better in a Catholic School.
I attended Both Catholic and Public, as did my children.
There simply is no comparison.


Quote
Nuns as teachers were a blight on civilization. Violence towards children is a disgusting sexual deviance.
Nonsense.
Idiots like you confuse discipline ie a Rap on the knuckles with violence.  It is not.
As if young kids cant be incorrigible or act out. They do and they can. Often.
And thats when they should be disciplined. That is the teachers responsibility.  I know many men who now thank the nuns that taught them and were stern when needed.
The flip side is chaos and constant interruptions in a public school zoo.

Most nuns I know are kind, sweet, driven to teach and love children.
The Jew media and fools like you give them a bad rap.




Quote
I am not certain what you mean. I am talking about the tuition requirements. That automatically "neglects" the children of the families who can't pay.
It negates nothing.

Many children from impoverished homes pay off of an income scale.
Other times, monies are provided for tuitition, in worst case, by parishioners.
My son just returned from summer Camp. It was $300.  But there was an offering set aside for donations for childrens families that couldnt afford it.
I dont know of 1 child that didnt attend due to money and there were over 100 kids there.

I and other school parents, will be cleaning up trash after the Octoberfest in Zinzinnat, something the school makes about $30,000 doing. 
All of That money helps goes to run the school ie teachers, PCs, Tuition.

Anyone with a brain would opt to send their child to a Catholic over a Public school in any district in America.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: WaltDisney on September 04, 2011, 04:57:55 AM
<embed id=VideoPlayback src=http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-2587661313510275113&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash> </embed>


LOL are these people for real ... are they "Christians"? They can't be catholics according to our religious sect here. Their Knowledge of geography makes the mind boggle.

These are just typical American slobs...Public school indoctrinates.

Would be interesting to sample such questions at a Traditional Catholic school.
I bet the results would be staggering.

Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: WaltDisney on September 04, 2011, 07:01:07 AM
What they "feel" does not matter. School performance tracks family income. It also tracks parental involvement. Tuition, even if paid because of moral extortion, increases involvement.
There are many private schools that cannot offer what Catholic schools can and parents flock to them for such reasons.
What is ones price for teaching and imparting morality?



Quote
You should also keep in mind that regardless of any performance in Catholic schools there is no evidence of lifetime earnings or standing in any job or profession indicating Catholics are over-represented at the high end.
I didnt know Catholics were solely concerned with earnings..
There are over 1 billion catholics, most choose to do what they wish and that which is fulfilling.
You have us confused with Jews when it comes to money.



Quote
This of it as a Catholic Head Start. It shows gains while in school but they don't have any lasting benefit.
The benefits are life long indeed. 
Ethics, Morality, structure, discipline, sacrments and pride.



    * Catholic School students score significantly above the national averages on standardized testing.

    * Research shows that because of a greater emphasis on homework and study, Catholic School students develop more effective writing skills.

    * Catholic High School students attend post-secondary education at a rate in excess of 95% and are more likely to complete their program of studies.

    * Catholic Schools have an excellent success rate in educating minority students.

Tuition cost is often supplemented by the parish, so the Catholic community shares the cost of education.

# Standardized test scores and a college acceptance rate of 97% reflect that our students are self-disciplined, self-motivated, responsible, and creative.

# In Catholic Schools there is a mutual respect which exists among students, faculty, and administrators which generates an atmosphere of care and concern.'




This is in Newark and Camden NJ.

Not exactly financial epicenters of income.

http://www.olmc.us/index.php/school/78
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: WaltDisney on September 04, 2011, 07:09:38 AM
Why do at-risk students thrive in Catholic schools?

by Nina H. Shokraii, USA Today



Strong institutional leadership, shared values among the staff about school goals, a safe and orderly environment, and high expectations for students regardless of back ground provide a climate for learning and much-needed discipline.

It is said that economic empowerment today is linked inextricably to education. This means that Congress has the opportunity to give tens of thousands of America's most disadvantaged children a much brighter future.

Attention from across the political and social spectrum is shifting to the astonishing success of inner-city Catholic schools in working with the very kids the public schools have abandoned as uneducable.
An abundance of research comparing public. private, and religious schools shows that Catholic schools improve not only test scores and graduation rates for these youngsters, but their future economic prospects -- and at a substantially lower cost.

In a study published in 1990, for instance, the Rand Corporation analyzed big-city high schools to determine how education for low-income minority youth could be improved. It looked at 13 public, private, and Catholic high schools in New York City that attracted minority and disadvantaged youth. Of the Catholic school students, 75-90% were black or Hispanic. The study found that:

* The Catholic high schools graduated 95% of their students each year, while the public schools graduated slightly more than 50% of their senior class.

* Over 66% of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, compared to five percent of the public school students.

* 85% of the Catholic high school students took the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT), compared with 33% of the public high school students.

* The Catholic school students achieved an average combined SAT score of 803, while the public school students' average combined SAT score was 642.

* 60% of the Catholic school black students scored above the national average for black students on the SAT, and more than 70% of public school black students scored below the same national average.

More recent studies confirm these observations.
 As parents, politicians, and concerned observers become aware of the benefits of Catholic schooling, particularly for the poor, the rhetoric demanding action builds. Syndicated columnist William Raspberry, a self-described "reluctant convert to school choice." wrote in 1997 that "It seems as obvious for poor children as for rich ones that one-size-fits-all education doesn't make sense."

 Furthermore, according to a 1997 survey conducted by Terry Moe, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, and John Chubb, founding partner and curriculum director for the Edison Project. 83% of public school parents and 82% of poor inner-city, parents want parochial schools to be included in the choice of institutions to which they can send their children. Lawmakers and educators should use the mounting research comparing the performance of students in private and religious schools with their public school counterparts to promote change in the U.S. educational system.

Not only do Catholic schools offer a safe and cooperative learning environment, they do so at a more reasonable and much lower cost than the public schools. For example:

Holy Angels Elementary School, a 110-year-old institution, is located in the Kenwood-Oakland neighborhood of southside Chicago, where three out of four people live in poverty and violent crime is the rule rather than the exception. Yet, Holy Angels has managed to become one of the strongest academic institutions in the country.

According to a 1994 report published by the Chicago Public Schools, four times as many Holy Angels eighth-graders scored above the national average in math on the Iowa Test of Basic Skills than those attending the area's three public schools. In addition, of the eighth-graders who scored above the national average in reading, twice as many were from Holy Angels as from the public schools. Tuition at Holy Angels is approximately $1,500 a year.

St. Gregory the Great Elementary School on West 90th St. in New York City serves only low-income black children from Harlem and Washington Heights. It outperforms all neighboring public schools and most of the schools in its district. In 1995, 62% of St. Gregory's third-graders were reading above the minimum standard and 92% functioned above the standard in math. St. Gregory charges $1,700 a year in tuition.

East Catholic High School in Detroit, where the principals saved for 12 years just to buy a school bus, has not allowed lack of funding to interfere with its students' academic achievements.
The school serves low-income minorities almost exclusively and has been particularly successful in teaching students who were not performing well in public schools. Nearly 75% of its pupils go to college after graduation. Just 15% of parents paying the $2,000 tuition fee are Catholic.

Holy Angels, St. Gregory the Great, and East Catholic High are typical inner-city Catholic schools. They overcome financial hardships daily to deliver astounding results because they possess the ingredients that make schools work well: strong institutional leadership and school autonomy; shared values among the staff about school goals; a safe and orderly environment: and core curriculum requirements and high expectations for all students regardless of background.

Despite such examples of success, prejudice against allowing inner-city parents to choose Catholic schools for their children continues to linger among policymakers and the education elite.
It often seems that just mentioning the term "Catholic schools" causes many opponents to conjure up images of strict nuns using knuckle-rapping rulers on terrified children. Unlike many government-run schools, Catholic institutions are strong on discipline, but the wholesome discipline at a Catholic school sends a clear message to students, who consequently are able to learn in a safe and orderly environment. Researchers have agreed that the caring staff members at Catholic schools willingly devote their attention to the academic and emotional well-being of students.

This difference is not lost on parents.
In Cleveland, inner-city parents immediately enrolled their children in Catholic schools during its 1996-97 experiment, a popular full-choice program that was struck down by a lower court after a successful first year of operation.
Most of the parents in this program who enrolled their children in the Catholic schools were not Catholic. They selected Catholic schools because, on balance, those institutions deliver impressive results.

Opponents of school choice often state that Catholic schools succeed because they can pick and choose students, have more freedom to dismiss disruptive pupils, and parents are more involved in their children's education. The evidence proves otherwise. According to Lydia Harris, principal of St. Adalbert, a leading Catholic school in Cleveland, "There's no cream on my crop until we put it there. It's a myth that we take discipline problems and throw them out of school.
It's the other way around. I get the kids the public schools can't handle." St. Adalbert is not alone. On average, Catholic high schools dismiss fewer than two students per year, and less than three students per year are suspended.

In 1996, Sol Stern, a contributing editor at New York's City Journal, wrote about how Catholic schools worked to teach their predominantly low-income minority non-Catholic clientele. Stern concluded that Catholic schools are "constantly reminding us that the neediest kids are educable and that spending extravagant sums of money isn't the answer.

No one who cares about reviving our failing public schools can afford to ignore this inspiring laboratory of reform." This is a strong admonition to those in Washington, D.C., who can direct the future of education reform.

The success of these Catholic education "laboratories" has been well-researched. As John DiIulio, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, attests, "The Catholic-school story is as solid as you can make a case.... It's not even close to the warning zone, when it comes to sociological credibility."
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on September 04, 2011, 10:16:28 AM

Idiots like you confuse discipline ie a Rap on the knuckles with violence.  It is not.

Do it on the street and it is a crime of violence. The law is on my side.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on September 04, 2011, 10:20:33 AM
What is ones price for teaching and imparting morality?

The greatest concern for morality is found where there is a profit involved.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: WaltDisney on September 04, 2011, 05:30:18 PM
Do it on the street and it is a crime of violence. The law is on my side.

I believe as a parent that corporal punishment is sometimes required.

I also believe that spare the rod, spoil the child, is age old wisdom.

I also think children need to respect classroom rules and teachers teaching, and that there are consequences for acting out, that are sometimes unpleasant.

I did not act out in Junior High school because of the stories from peers visiting the Vice Principals office, who kept large paddles on his wall.

An effective deterrant.   A rap on the knuckles is nothing by comparison.

Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: WaltDisney on September 04, 2011, 05:31:57 PM
The greatest concern for morality is found where there is a profit involved.

Yes, teachings of thou shall not kill, steal, covet, Lie, and commit adultery are all profit driven.


 Rolls eyes
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: WaltDisney on September 04, 2011, 05:34:52 PM
Do it on the street and it is a crime of violence. The law is on my side.

And facts are on My Side.
Guess you missed the article on Catholic Schooling success per the USA today..



Why do at-risk students thrive in Catholic schools?

by Nina H. Shokraii, USA Today


Attention from across the political and social spectrum is shifting to the astonishing success of inner-city Catholic schools in working with the very kids the public schools have abandoned as uneducable.
An abundance of research comparing public. private, and religious schools shows that Catholic schools improve not only test scores and graduation rates for these youngsters, but their future economic prospects -- and at a substantially lower cost.

In a study published in 1990, for instance, the Rand Corporation analyzed big-city high schools to determine how education for low-income minority youth could be improved.
It looked at 13 public, private, and Catholic high schools in New York City that attracted minority and disadvantaged youth. Of the Catholic school students, 75-90% were black or Hispanic. The study found that:

* The Catholic high schools graduated 95% of their students each year, while the public schools graduated slightly more than 50% of their senior class.



It often seems that just mentioning the term "Catholic schools" causes many opponents to conjure up images of strict nuns using knuckle-rapping rulers on terrified children. Unlike many government-run schools, Catholic institutions are strong on discipline, but the wholesome discipline at a Catholic school sends a clear message to students, who consequently are able to learn in a safe and orderly environment.
Researchers have agreed that the caring staff members at Catholic schools willingly devote their attention to the academic and emotional well-being of students.

This difference is not lost on parents.
In Cleveland, inner-city parents immediately enrolled their children in Catholic schools during its 1996-97 experiment, a popular full-choice program that was struck down by a lower court after a successful first year of operation.
Most of the parents in this program who enrolled their children in the Catholic schools were not Catholic. They selected Catholic schools because, on balance, those institutions deliver impressive results.

Opponents of school choice often state that Catholic schools succeed because they can pick and choose students, have more freedom to dismiss disruptive pupils, and parents are more involved in their children's education.
The evidence proves otherwise.
According to Lydia Harris, principal of St. Adalbert, a leading Catholic school in Cleveland, "There's no cream on my crop until we put it there. It's a myth that we take discipline problems and throw them out of school.

It's the other way around. I get the kids the public schools can't handle." St. Adalbert is not alone. On average, Catholic high schools dismiss fewer than two students per year, and less than three students per year are suspended.

In 1996, Sol Stern, a contributing editor at New York's City Journal, wrote about how Catholic schools worked to teach their predominantly low-income minority non-Catholic clientele.
 Stern concluded that Catholic schools are "constantly reminding us that the neediest kids are educable and that spending extravagant sums of money isn't the answer.

No one who cares about reviving our failing public schools can afford to ignore this inspiring laboratory of reform." This is a strong admonition to those in Washington, D.C., who can direct the future of education reform.

The success of these Catholic education "laboratories" has been well-researched. As John DiIulio, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, attests, "The Catholic-school story is as solid as you can make a case.... It's not even close to the warning zone, when it comes to sociological credibility."
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on September 05, 2011, 07:59:03 PM

I also believe that spare the rod, spoil the child, is age old wisdom.

Unlike you I do not consider the ideas of uneducated, primitive, illiterate goat herders to be a source of wisdom.

I am aware you think their ideas on religions are genius. That only calibrates your intelligence.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on September 05, 2011, 08:06:52 PM
Yes, teachings of thou shall not kill, steal, covet, Lie, and commit adultery are all profit driven.
Rolls eyes

Lets see, one can learn the same things in public school for free or pay tuition to a Catholic school. Therefore the profit is in the Catholic school.

Having actually paid attention to the reason the Catholic Church gives it is to indoctrinate children with Roman Catholic dogma 95+% of which is separate from morality and the only part not duplicated in public schools or from simple life experiences.

Follow the money.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on September 05, 2011, 08:09:32 PM
And facts are on My Side.
Guess you missed the article on Catholic Schooling success per the USA today..

Why do at-risk students thrive in Catholic schools?

by Nina H. Shokraii, USA Today

You did NOT miss it when I pointed out the only valid measure is either lifetime earnings or lifetime achievement in one's work. You also did not miss it when I pointed out there is no evidence showing a lifetime benefit from a Catholic school education.

Should you find lifetime evidence instead of repeating irrelevant material please post it.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: EyeBelieve on September 05, 2011, 09:37:06 PM
Lets see, one can learn the same things in public school for free or pay tuition to a Catholic school. Therefore the profit is in the Catholic school.

Having actually paid attention to the reason the Catholic Church gives it is to indoctrinate children with Roman Catholic dogma 95+% of which is separate from morality and the only part not duplicated in public schools or from simple life experiences.

Follow the money.

Follow the money?  As if Catholic schools were profit centers?  I went to high-grade public schools & don't remember much if any values (ie Commandment) education.  Plus AFAIK Catholic schools have, in the past couple of generations, vastly de-emphasized Catholic teachings in favor of Catholic-lite education acceptable to non-Catholics & Joo pressure groups.  Public schools teach the religion of American Exceptionialism, ie Might Makes Right.

Jesuit Georgetown Uni is quite secular (& regarded with due suspicion by many Catholics) & makes little effort to promote Catholic values.  Catholics pay big money to educate non-Catholics who have little potential or intention to become Catholic.  In my home town Catholics operated a big free food/homeless shelter & the staff never uttered a word about Catholic beliefs to (mostly ungrateful) recipients.  Of course as Joos & their MIC lackeys gentrified the former working-class downtown the Catholic charity was moved aside.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: clefty on September 06, 2011, 03:55:27 AM
Yes, teachings of thou shall not kill, steal, covet, Lie, and commit adultery are all profit driven.


 Rolls eyes

you only listed 5 out of 10 of which you claim all are no longer binding...

which explains alot of the mess we are in...

change the law (by ommission or claims of destruction) you change the faith and Who your allegiance is to...

in your case its to the church not God according to scripture which leads to Him...not the church
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Iron Webmaster on September 06, 2011, 05:52:33 AM
Follow the money?  As if Catholic schools were profit centers?

That they are run as 'not for profit' orgs rather than for profit is a decision related to taxes.

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I went to high-grade public schools & don't remember much if any values (ie Commandment) education.  Plus AFAIK Catholic schools have, in the past couple of generations, vastly de-emphasized Catholic teachings in favor of Catholic-lite education acceptable to non-Catholics & Joo pressure groups.  Public schools teach the religion of American Exceptionialism, ie Might Makes Right.

Which of course leads to the question of why they still exist instead of being abandoned for having no particular practical use. For the record I was "blessed" with a Catholic education for 12 years starting in 1950. I am not speaking from ignorance rather as the product of it. Believers will of course blame me for the failure as they have absolute faith in the process even though it fails every test of value.

As to some grand master plan behind public schools it is difficult to reconcile that idea with the other allegation that teachers are not competent and failing to educate. One has to ask how they manage to fail to teach arithmetic and succeed in teaching exceptionalism. It would seem they only get credit for competence when there is a conspiracy involved.

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Jesuit Georgetown Uni is quite secular (& regarded with due suspicion by many Catholics) & makes little effort to promote Catholic values.  Catholics pay big money to educate non-Catholics who have little potential or intention to become Catholic.  In my home town Catholics operated a big free food/homeless shelter & the staff never uttered a word about Catholic beliefs to (mostly ungrateful) recipients.  Of course as Joos & their MIC lackeys gentrified the former working-class downtown the Catholic charity was moved aside.

Sounds like you wanted it to be like you wanted a "Guys and Dolls" scenario in exchange for food. "Siddown ur rockin the boat!"

But I am curious as to your theology. If it is a requirement to feed the hungry why should their be gratitude when it is only being done because it is a requirement? And if it is human nature why pretend there is a need for a requirement?
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Jan Robertson on September 07, 2011, 04:10:01 PM

NB. WaltDisney....

*LOL are these people for real ... are they "Christians"? They can't be catholics according to our religious sect here. Their Knowledge of geography makes the mind boggle.

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These are just typical American slobs...Public school indoctrinates.

Would be interesting to sample such questions at a Traditional Catholic school.
I bet the results would be staggering.

Staggering indeed!! Can you provide the proof that those interviewed were American slobs...Public school indoctrinates, or is that your expert opinion only?

However! seeing as Catholics equate to Jewish, and Jews "control" ALL education from primary up, be it Catholic, Protestant or Jew, is it any wonder they educate their own better than the goyim.

Religion is the source for "obedience" and obedience equates to "Control" ... The Catholic educated  get preferential treatment for superior jobs, as do Freemasons ( http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/roman_catholic_freemason.htm )... it's what they are "schooled" for.

Education is all part of the divide and conquer and class creation.

You seem to forget that Jews have morphed and transformed many times over the centuries and infiltrated EVERY form of education and organization to made slavish followers of their programs and agendas. Read the Protocols of how they intended to take over EDUCATION, and RELIGION and destroy them in the process.

In your case they have succeeded spectacularly.
 
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: WaltDisney on September 07, 2011, 05:02:39 PM
NB. WaltDisney....

*LOL are these people for real ... are they "Christians"? They can't be catholics according to our religious sect here. Their Knowledge of geography makes the mind boggle.

Staggering indeed!! Can you provide the proof that those interviewed were American slobs...Public school indoctrinates, or is that your expert opinion only?

However! seeing as Catholics equate to Jewish, and Jews "control" ALL education from primary up, be it Catholic, Protestant or Jew, is it any wonder they educate their own better than the goyim.

Religion is the source for "obedience" and obedience equates to "Control" ... The Catholic educated  get preferential treatment for superior jobs, as do Freemasons ( http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/roman_catholic_freemason.htm )... it's what they are "schooled" for.

Education is all part of the divide and conquer and class creation.

You seem to forget that Jews have morphed and transformed many times over the centuries and infiltrated EVERY form of education and organization to made slavish followers of their programs and agendas. Read the Protocols of how they intended to take over EDUCATION, and RELIGION and destroy them in the process.

In your case they have succeeded spectacularly.


"We have still a long way to go before we can overthrow our main opponent: the Catholic Church...

      "We must always bear in mind that the Catholic Church is the only institution which has stood, and which will, as long as it remains in existence, stand in our way.  The Catholic Church, with her methodical work and her edifying and moral teachings, will always keep her children in such a state of mind as to make them too self-respecting to yield to our domination, and to bow before our future king of Israel...

      "That is why we have been striving to discover the best way of shaking the Catholic Church to her very foundations...

      "We have blackened the Catholic Church with the most ignominious calumnies, we have stained her history and disgraced even her noblest activities.  We have imputed to her the wrongs of her enemies, and have thus brought these latter to stand more closely by our side... We have turned her Clergy into objects of hatred and ridicule, we have subjected them to the contempt of the crowd... We have caused the practice of the Catholic Religion to be considered out of date and a mere waste of time...

      "One of the many triumphs of our Freemasonry is that those Gentiles who become members of our Lodges, should never suspect that we are using them to build their own jails, upon whose terraces we shall erect the throne of our Universal King of Israel...





PROTOCOL No. 14

1. When we come into our kingdom it will be undesirable for us that there should exist any other religion than ours of the One God with whom our destiny is bound up by our position as the Chosen People and through whom our same destiny is united with the destinies of the world. We must therefore sweep away all other forms of belief. If this gives birth to the atheists whom we see to-day, it will not, being only a transitional stage, interfere with our views, but will serve as a warning for those generations which will hearken to our preaching of the religion of Moses, that, by its stable and thoroughly elaborated system has brought all the peoples of the world into subjection to us.

 Therein we shall emphasize its mystical right, on which, as we shall say, all its educative power is based .... Then at every possible opportunity we shall publish articles in which we shall make comparisons between our beneficent rule and those of past ages. The blessing of tranquillity, though it be a tranquillity forcibly brought about by centuries of agitation, will throw into higher relief the benefits to which we shall point. The errors of the GOYIM governments will be depicted by us in the most vivid hues.

We shall implant such an abhorrence of them that the peoples will prefer tranquillity in a state of serfdom to those rights of vaunted freedom which have tortured humanity and exhausted the very sources of human existence, sources which have been exploited by a mob of rascally adventurers who know not what they do .... USELESS CHANGES OF FORMS OF GOVERNMENT TO WHICH WE INSTIGATED THE "GOYIM" WHEN WE WERE UNDERMINING THEIR STATE STRUCTURES, WILL HAVE SO WEARIED THE PEOPLES BY THAT TIME THAT THEY WILL PREFER TO SUFFER ANYTHING UNDER US RATHER THAN RUN THE RISK OF ENDURING AGAIN ALL THE AGITATIONS AND MISERIES THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH. (This "religion of Moses," the so-called "Oral Torah" or Babylonian Talmud, is the antithesis of Moses and the Prophets).

WE SHALL FORBID CHRIST

2. At the same time we shall not omit to emphasize the historical mistakes of the GOY governments which have tormented humanity for so many centuries by their lack of understanding of everything that constitutes the true good of humanity in their chase after fantastic schemes of social blessings, and have never noticed that these schemes kept on producing a worse and never a better state of the universal relations which are the basis of human life ...

3. The whole force of our principles and methods will lie in the fact that we shall present them and expound them as a splendid contrast to the dead and decomposed old order of things in social life.

4. Our philosophers will discuss all the shortcomings of the various beliefs of the "GOYIM," BUT NO ONE WILL EVER BRING UNDER DISCUSSION OUR FAITH FROM ITS TRUE POINT OF VIEW SINCE THIS WILL BE FULLY LEARNED BY NONE SAVE OURS WHO WILL NEVER DARE TO BETRAY ITS SECRETS.

5. IN COUNTRIES KNOWN AS PROGRESSIVE AND ENLIGHTENED WE HAVE CREATED A SENSELESS, FILTHY, ABOMINABLE LITERATURE. For some time after our entrance to power we shall continue to encourage its existence in order to provide a telling relief by contrast to the speeches, party program, which will be distributed from exalted quarters of ours .... Our wise men, trained to become leaders of the GOYIM, will compose speeches, projects, memoirs, articles, which will be used by us to influence the minds of the GOYIM, directing them towards such understanding and forms of knowledge as have been determined by us.



I dare say your average Catholic school educated Child is far more learned and intelligent that his fellow public school indoctrinated lemming..
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: EyeBelieve on September 07, 2011, 05:39:24 PM
Which of course leads to the question of why they still exist instead of being abandoned for having no particular practical use. For the record I was "blessed" with a Catholic education for 12 years starting in 1950. I am not speaking from ignorance rather as the product of it. Believers will of course blame me for the failure as they have absolute faith in the process even though it fails every test of value.

Well I guess Catholics figure it's better than nothing ie sending kids to public schools.  One test of value is that many parents prefer Catholic schools though admittedly our education system doesn't offer a lot of choice overall.  You may be right that overall Catholic schools don't do better but OTOH since local school systems vary wildly that may not always be true on the micro level.

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As to some grand master plan behind public schools it is difficult to reconcile that idea with the other allegation that teachers are not competent and failing to educate. One has to ask how they manage to fail to teach arithmetic and succeed in teaching exceptionalism. It would seem they only get credit for competence when there is a conspiracy involved.

Well schools have the assistance of gov't/MSM promoting American Exceptionalism, schools are only the icing on the cake there.  Personally I'm not a supporter of public nor Catholic education, I think folks should have a fair choice including home schooling without paying a financial penalty.  In first grade I went to a little private non-denominational school, it was far more pleasant than public schools I attended the next year on & I learned much faster.  Public schools were authoritarian & bureaucratic.  Catholic schools may be the same, I dunno, seems like most schools are glorified babysitters.

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Sounds like you wanted it to be like you wanted a "Guys and Dolls" scenario in exchange for food. "Siddown ur rockin the boat!"

But I am curious as to your theology. If it is a requirement to feed the hungry why should their be gratitude when it is only being done because it is a requirement? And if it is human nature why pretend there is a need for a requirement?

A little "thank you" is just simple politeness esp for something free.  I'm basically an agnostic.  Christianity teaches charity even when no material reward.  Humans do have some charitable instinct apparently but perhaps religion helps channel this instinct to those outside of village/tribe.  Yes, I know that in practice "Christian charity" often falls down, as does gov't or atheist charity.  At least Christian charity doesn't rely on physical force.
Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Jan Robertson on September 08, 2011, 09:39:04 AM

"We have still a long way to go before we can overthrow our main opponent: the Catholic Church...     

"We must always bear in mind that the Catholic Church is the only institution which has stood, and which will, as long as it remains in existence, stand in our way.  The Catholic Church, with her methodical work and her edifying and moral teachings, will always keep her children in such a state of mind as to make them too self-respecting to yield to our domination, and to bow before our future king of Israel...      "That is why we have been striving to discover the best way of shaking the Catholic Church to her very foundations...

      "We have blackened the Catholic Church with the most ignominious calumnies, we have stained her history and disgraced even her noblest activities.  We have imputed to her the wrongs of her enemies, and have thus brought these latter to stand more closely by our side... We have turned her Clergy into objects of hatred and ridicule, we have subjected them to the contempt of the crowd... We have caused the practice of the Catholic Religion to be considered out of date and a mere waste of time...

      "One of the many triumphs of our Freemasonry is that those Gentiles who become members of our Lodges, should never suspect that we are using them to build their own jails, upon whose terraces we shall erect the throne of our Universal King of Israel...

Are you attempting to re-write the protocols now? Please provide the exact references in the ORIGINAL Protocols.

The above quotes have been changed by the addition of "The Catholic Church" which is from your source "THE JESUITS AND THE PROTOCOLS OF ZION" By the late Leo H. Lehmann http://www.historicism.com/misc/protocols.htm

*(Originally taken from "Behind the Dictators," by L.H. Lehmann and reprinted by permission of Agora Publishing Company, New York 6, New York.  Copyright by Agora Publishing Company.)

*Taken from Old Fashioned Prophecy Magazine, ed. Eric C. Peters, Vol. X, Nos. 5 & 6, September-December, 1968. pp. 29-37.



Leo H Lehman is a decidedly Jewish name and there is no Bio of him on the internet other than he was a priest, (a Jesuit?)

Just what is it about the protocols that you don't understand (or don't want to)?

Try reading the original protocols http://iamthewitness.com/Protocols-of-Zion.htm AND the modern English translation. http://iamthewitness.com/Protocols-in-Modern-English.htm

These are the sort of books and articles people like you are afraid of reading because they don't gibe with what you have been taught, or contain truths you don't want to know. You stick to Catholic Theology and ignore or deny everything else.

Lehman was the 'translator' of "The Talmud unmasked" a book written in 1892 by Justinas Bonaventure Pranaitis (1861–1917). Pranaitis was not able to read Aramaic, the primary language of the Talmud, and so he relied primarily on the works of Jakob Ecker and August Rohling (a German Catholic theologian). His (Pranaitis) version of the Talmud is very tame and doesn't mention some of the real filth it contains, and mainly the stuff relating to "The Church" and Jesus.


Title: - * Christianity - central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions
Post by: Akira on May 12, 2012, 11:15:34 PM
"Christianity is homophobic."

HA HA

That's a complaint?

"Homophobia" is a Kike-term.

It was coined independently by two different kikes.

One was a Kike Jew-Voodooist "psychologist", who said that "homophobia" is a phenomenon brought on by "fear of the other" and fear of one's own queerness.

The other was the Kike pornographer Al Goldstein of Screw magazine. He used it to attack men who weren't interested in seeing men's dicks in porn. He said that any man who didn't want to see another guy's hard cock must be a faggot and is afraid of getting turned on and having to admit he's queer. The Kike Goldstein said that "normal" men would have no problem watching "hardcore" porn.

We see the results of this Kike strategy all around us with the queer cult pimped all over.