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Library => History & Civilization => Topic started by: roscoe on June 11, 2011, 03:17:18 PM

Title: Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 11, 2011, 03:17:18 PM
I am now in possession of this book by his son Ferdinand. The title of the first chapter is 'Concerning The Birthplace Family and Name...'
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 11, 2011, 06:45:52 PM
 Acc to his son Ferdinand we learn this-- that Columbo or Colon( as he adopted in Spain) 'chose to leave in obscurity all that related to his birthplace and family'. He then names some towns that others claim his father was from-- including Genoa.

Acc to the Translator/ Editor Keen , Columbus was probably born in Genoa in 1451.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 14, 2011, 01:53:49 PM
On pg 49 of the Intro to this work we encounter the following. " But it( the bio of Columbus by the Spaniard Madariaga) suffers from a major flaw-- Madariaga doggedly adheres to the thesis that Columbus was of Jewish origin and belonged to a secret group of conversos, converted jews. Madariaga employs this notion throughout the book to to explain certain actions of Columbus and his supposed traits of fanaticism and avarice. Although the thesis rests on fragile circumstantial evidence, it continues to have its advocates, like Simon Wiesenthal, author of Sails of Hope"-- and i might add, the Marrano Communist WD.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: EyeBelieve on June 14, 2011, 09:38:09 PM
On pg 49 of the Intro to this work we encounter the following. " But it( the bio of Columbus by the Spaniard Madariaga) suffers from a major flaw-- Madariaga doggedly adheres to the thesis that Columbus was of Jewish origin and belonged to a secret group of conversos, converted jews. Madariaga employs this notion throughout the book to to explain certain actions of Columbus and his supposed traits of fanaticism and avarice. Although the thesis rests on fragile circumstantial evidence, it continues to have its advocates, like Simon Wiesenthal, author of Sails of Hope"-- and i might add, the Marrano Communist WD.

Anti-Columbus folks sometimes claim he's a Cryto but OTHO it's hard to see how Ferdinand & Isabella could have so easily been duped.

http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2009/webcasts/3626june27opener.html (http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2009/webcasts/3626june27opener.html)
You can't understand the United States, unless you go to its origins. You have to go to Christopher Columbus. It's very important: If you don't understand Christopher Columbus properly, you don't understand where the United States came from. You don't know what's embedded in its character. You don't understand Christopher Columbus if you don't understand Nicholas of Cusa, the man who defined the institution of the modern nation-state, who defined modern science; who set up the end of religious warfare as a policy, which became, again, the 1648 Peace of Westphalia. So, the institutions from which the United States was hatched as a nation, go way back in history, in a history of European culture, in particular.

We were formed, here, to escape from Europe, in order to bring the best of European civilization into a different continent. The effort was made from Spain, into South America, most notably. The effort was made in particular, beginning 1620 in Massachusetts, with the arrival of the Pilgrims, and then the later Massachusetts Bay Colony. The intention was—these were not refugees; these people who created this nation, were not refugees. They came here, to bring the best of European civilization to a new continent, where it would be free of the corruption of Europe! The moral and cultural corruption of Europe, which was largely the history of oligarchy!
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 14, 2011, 10:50:03 PM
Only a LaRouchie could imagine that Ferdinand and Isabella were 'duped'. The whole Jones- Rensee -- Tarpley Net is LaRouchian.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: EyeBelieve on June 15, 2011, 07:28:57 PM
Only a LaRouchie could imagine that Ferdinand and Isabella were 'duped'. The whole Jones- Rensee -- Tarpley Net is LaRouchian.

You apparently misunderstood my point.  Firstly, your previous posts, by citing liars like Wiesenthal as among those who claim Colombus as Chosen, implies that you (& the Ferdinand book) believe that Colombus was authentic Gentile.  Fair enough?

So I'm agreeing that AFAIK Colombus could have been Gentile.  & I didn't say (nor does LaRouche) that Colombus was Jewish, nor did I say that Ferdinand/Isabella were actually duped.  Rather (given that Spain had much experience trying to eliminate Joo influence & dealing with Cryptos that I feel it was quite unlikely that they would have sponsored Colombus if they knew he was Crypto.

OTOH perhaps Ferdinand/Isabella used the Inquisition-type pressure to maintain popular support but secretly use it to gain advantage in financial deals with Joo/Crypto financiers?  I'm hardly an expert on Spanish history, I just consider that a possibility.  Even that scenario doesn't include Ferdinand/Isabella being duped.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 15, 2011, 08:42:42 PM
You apparently misunderstood my point.  Firstly, your previous posts, by citing liars like Wiesenthal as among those who claim Colombus as Chosen, implies that you (& the Ferdinand book) believe that Colombus was authentic Gentile.  Fair enough?

So I'm agreeing that AFAIK Colombus could have been Gentile.  & I didn't say (nor does LaRouche) that Colombus was Jewish, nor did I say that Ferdinand/Isabella were actually duped.  Rather (given that Spain had much experience trying to eliminate Joo influence & dealing with Cryptos that I feel it was quite unlikely that they would have sponsored Colombus if they knew he was Crypto.

OTOH perhaps Ferdinand/Isabella used the Inquisition-type pressure to maintain popular support but secretly use it to gain advantage in financial deals with Joo/Crypto financiers?  I'm hardly an expert on Spanish history, I just consider that a possibility.  Even that scenario doesn't include Ferdinand/Isabella being duped.

This may not register w/ U but Columbus was not a 'Gentile' -- he was a Catholic.  I personally have no problem with true conversos and  have been the first to rejoice when one emerges. i have in the past mentioned Fr's Laynez, Polanco, Bastida, and Mortara.

The first-- what U refer to as a 'gentile'-- naming Columbus as a converso has none the less emerged in this process. Actually Madariaga is calling Columbus a marrano by claiming that he was in a 'secret group'. And u are correct that Isabella would not have sponsored him if she thought he was a crypto( marrano).

Religious reasons and not ' maintaining popular support ' are the motivation for INQ. I would read Isabella and also Philip
II bio by Walsh to catch up on your Spanish history.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: EyeBelieve on June 15, 2011, 11:45:31 PM
This may not register w/ U but Columbus was not a 'Gentile' -- he was a Catholic.

Excellent.  MSM constantly belittles Catholic contributions to progress ie Catholic scientists, universities etc.  MSM cheats by claiming Galileo as a hero whereas the trad Catholics actually state that his "oppression" was vastly overstated (ie he deliberately sought to provoke the Church hierarchy) & LaRouchies, furthermore, claim that he was basically a fraud like Newton.

Quote
Religious reasons and not ' maintaining popular support ' are the motivation for INQ. I would read Isabella and also Philip
II bio by Walsh to catch up on your Spanish history.

Bookmarked a Walsh book, thanks.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 16, 2011, 09:38:28 AM
U may want to read my Real Galileo

http://firstjesuits.wordpress.com
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: EyeBelieve on June 19, 2011, 08:32:42 PM
U may want to read my Real Galileo

http://firstjesuits.wordpress.com

Interesting material there.  EWTN did a show defending Galileo; their gist was that the popular (ie Joo-secular) view of him being viciously attacked by an anti-science Church is highly distorted.  They mention some of the things you note, ie he wasn't tortured or killed; was abrasive & provocative.

Your mention of Sarpi is also interesting.  While LaRouche frequently writes of Galileo as being a fraud he doesn't seem to go into much detail; OTOH he places much emphasis on blaming Sarpi for fathering centuries of bad science by promoting reductionism/Aristotleism.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: pope daniel on June 19, 2011, 10:26:50 PM
yeah newton was a serious fraud. i mean "gravity" wtf? shit goes up goes down, i could have lived back then and called it "perpetual downard force" and been just as renowned??
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 21, 2011, 11:57:52 AM
I am not sure what 'reductionalism' is but Aristotles work has been  reconciled to the Church by St Thomas. Would La Rouche be considered an opponent of Scolasticism?

Newton was not a Catholic but as a scientist, he can hardly be called a fraud.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: EyeBelieve on June 21, 2011, 07:11:15 PM
I am not sure what 'reductionalism' is but Aristotles work has been  reconciled to the Church by St Thomas. Would La Rouche be considered an opponent of Scolasticism?

Newton was not a Catholic but as a scientist, he can hardly be called a fraud.

http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2004/3117mental_slavery.html (http://Reductionism as Mental Slavery)

a snippet:

Finally, on this matter of "inevitability." The rationale usually employed in a kind of formalist's defense of the notion of inevitability, is the same type of argument central to the underlying folly of all Aristotelian thinking, and also of the neo-Aristotelian modes known as empiricism, positivism, and existentialism. The problem is typified in the writings of Kepler, such as his The New Astronomy, in Kepler's focus on the fraud, in astronomy, by the Aristotelian Claudius Ptolemy and the pro-Aristotelian follies of Copernicus and Tycho Brahe. This is otherwise to be recognized, to the same net effect, as the pathologically anti-Promethean ideology of the Delphi cult, and the Eleatics, Sophists, Aristotelians, and empiricists generally. The core of the aspect of that issue which is of relevance in the present immediate context of the principles of forecasting, is expressed by the difference between the concept of "power," by pre-Aristotelian Classical Greek science, and Aristotle's proposed substitute for "power," "energy." Energy is an effect; power is the action whose footprint may often be termed "energy."

When we recognize that a failed self-esteemed forecaster thinks in terms of statistical or kindred extrapolations from observed effects, to the effect of assuming that an adduced pattern of effects is the motive for the subsequent outcome, we have put our finger on the deepest source of that forecaster's incompetence.

As for Newton he was heavily into the occult & a plagiarist.  From another LaRouchePub.com article:

So, therefore, anything which shows truthfully that in what people ordinarily believe from sense perception or mere description is not true, is a metaphor. And, for example, some idiot would say gravitation is defined by Galileo. It is not. So the difference between gravitation as defined by Galileo and Kepler is a metaphor. Newton: the same thing. Newton's concept is absurd. Newton actually plagiarized Galileo's interpretation of the publication of Kepler's New Astronomy. So Newton discovered nothing.

Newton's system was based on a plagiarism of Kepler's New Astronomy, an English edition, published in the latter part of the 17th Century, interpreted from the standpoint of the doctrine of Galileo. So, to use the term gravitation in the two cases is metaphorical, because it means two opposite things, completely different kinds of things under the circumstances.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 22, 2011, 12:34:49 PM
I am aware of who Newton was but he didn't have everything wrong. His theory of gravity concurs  w/ the idea that E rev around S. I would like to know if La Rouche believes S rev around E or E rev around S.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: EyeBelieve on June 22, 2011, 07:12:23 PM
I am aware of who Newton was but he didn't have everything wrong. His theory of gravity concurs  w/ the idea that E rev around S. I would like to know if La Rouche believes S rev around E or E rev around S.

LaRouche is a Kepler guy basically.  When LR says Newton is a fraud he doesn't mean everything Newton (supposedly) said was wrong.  London wouldn't have used Newton as their little hero if he was laughably backwards; he was convincing enough to become part of their program of "sophistry".  LaRouche, of course, doesn't believe in the Sun revolving around the Earth.

As I gather it, LaRouche objects to "Newtonian physics" because it implies an entropic universe (tending to increases chaos & randomness) & ignores the self-ordering characteristics of the universe & esp the part of humans (as working in the image of God) to create an ordered world & universe.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 26, 2011, 06:39:39 AM

From Henry Ford's Book, The International Jew

'The story of the Jews in America begins with Christopher Columbus.
On August 2, 1492, more than 300,000 Jews were expelled from Spain and on August 3, the next day, Columbus set sail for the west, taking a group of Jews with him.

  They were not, however, refugees, for the prophetic navigator's plans had aroused the sympathy of influential Jews for a long period previously. Columbus himself tells us that he consorted much with Jews.

 The first letter he wrote detailing his discoveries was to a Jew.
Indeed, the eventful voyage itself which added to men's knowledge and wealth "the other half of the earth" was made possible by Jews. The pleasant story that it was Queen Isabella's jewels which financed the voyage has disappeared under cool research.

  There were three Maranos or "secret Jews" who wielded great influence at the Spanish court: Luis de Santagel, who was an important merchant of Valencia and who was "farmer" of the royal taxes; his relative, Gabriel Sanchez, who was the royal treasurer; and their friend, the royal chamberlain, Juan Cabrero.

These worked unceasingly on Queen Isabella's imagination, picturing to her the depletion of the royal treasury and the likelihood of Columbus discovering the fabulous gold of the Indies, until the Queen was ready to offer her jewels in pawn for the funds.
But Santagel craved permission to advance the money himself, which he did, 17,000 ducats in all, about 5,000 pounds, perhaps equal to 40,000 pounds today.

  Associated with Columbus in the voyage were at least five Jews: Luis de Torres, interpreter; Marco, the surgeon; Bernal, the physician; Alonzo de la Calle, and Gabriel Sanchez.
Luis de Torres was the first man ashore, the first to discover the use of tobacco; he settled in Cuba and may be said to be the father of Jewish control of the tobacco business as it exists today.


  Columbus' old patrons, Luis de Santagel and Gabriel Sanchez, received many privileges for the part they played in the work, but Columbus himself became the victim of a conspiracy fostered by Bernal, the ship's doctor, and suffered injustice and imprisonment as his reward.

  From that beginning, Jews looked more and more to America as a fruitful field, and immigration set in strongly toward South America, principally Brazil. But because of military participation in a disagreement between the Brazilians and the Dutch, the Jews of Brazil found it necessary to emigrate, which they did in the direction of the Dutch colony of what is now New York.

Peter Stuyvesant, the Dutch governor, did not entirely approve of their settling among his people and ordered them to leave, but the Jews had evidently taken the precaution to assure their being received if not welcomed, because upon revoking the order of Stuyvesant, the Directors gave as one of the reasons for the Jews being received, "the large amount of capital which they have invested in the shares of the Company."

  Nevertheless they were forbidden to enter public service and to open retail shops, which had the effect of driving them into foreign trade in which they were soon exercising all but a monopoly because of their European connections.

  This is only one of the thousand illustrations which can be given of the resourcefulness of the Jew. Forbid him in one direction he will excel in another. When he was forbidden to deal in new clothes, he sold old clothes - that was the beginning of the organized traffic in secondhand clothing.
 When he was forbidden to deal in merchandise, he dealt in waste - the Jew is the originator of the waste product business of the world; he was the originator of the salvage system; he found wealth in the debris of civilization. He taught people how to use old rags, how to clean old feathers, how to use gall nuts and rabbit skins.
He has always had a taste for the furrier trade, which he now controls, and to him is due the multitude of common skins which now pass under various alluring trade names as furs of high origin.

  Unwittingly, old Peter Stuyvesant compelled the Jews to make New York the principal port of America, and though a majority of New York Jews had fled to Philadelphia at the time of the American Revolution, most of them returned to New York at the earliest opportunity, instinct seeming to make them aware that, in New York was to be their principal paradise of gain. And so it has proved.

  New York is the greatest center of Jewish population in the world. It is the gateway where the bulk of American imports and exports are taxed, and where practical all the business done in America pays tribute to the masters of money. The very land of the city is the holdings of the Jews.

  No wonder that Jewish writers, viewing this unprecedented prosperity, this unchecked growth in wealth and power, exclaim enthusiastically that the United States is the Promised Land foretold by the prophets, and New York the New Jerusalem.
Some have gone even further and described the peaks of the Rockies as "the mountains of Zion," and with reason, too, if the mining and coastal wealth of the Jews is considered.

  In the time of George Washington there were about 4,000 Jews in the country, most of them well to do traders. They favored the American side and helped the revolutionary colonies out with loans at critical moments.

  In fifty years the traceable increase in the Jewish population of the United States was more than 3,300,000. What it is today no man can estimate with any hope of accuracy.

  To make a list of the lines of business controlled by the Jews of the United States would be to touch most of the vital industries of the country - those which are really vital, and those which cultivated habit have been made to seem vital.
The theatrical business is exclusively Jewish: play-producing, booking, theater operation are all in the hands of Jews. This accounts for the fact that in almost every production today can be detected propaganda, sometimes glaringly commercial advertisement, sometimes direct political instruction.

  The motion picture industry; the sugar industry; the tobacco industry; fifty per cent or more of the meat packing industry; over sixty per cent of the shoemaking industry; most of the musical purveying done in the country; jewelry; grain; cotton; oil; steel; magazine authorship; news distribution; the liquor business; the loan business; these, to name only the industries with national and international sweep, are in control of the Jews of the United States, either alone or in association with Jews overseas.

  The American people would be vastly surprised if they could see a line-up of some of the "American business men' who hold up our commercial prestige overseas. They are mostly Jews. This may throw a sidelight on the regard in which "American business methods" are held in some parts of the world.
When many different races of people can carry on business under the name "American," and do it legally, too, it is not surprising that Americans do not recognize some of the descriptions of American methods which appear in the foreign Press. If the reputation of American business has suffered, it is because something other than American methods have been used under the American name.

  Instances of Jewish prosperity in the United States are commonplace, but prosperity, the just reward of foresight and application, is not to be confounded with control. It would be impossible for any Gentile coalition under similar circumstances to attain the control which the Jews have won, for the reason that there is lacking in the Gentile a certain quality of working-togetherness, a certain conspiracy of objective, and the adhesiveness of intense raciality, which characterizes the Jew. It is nothing to a Gentile that another man is a Gentile; it is next to everything to a Jew that the man at his door is another Jew.

  The International Jewish plan to move their money market to the United States was what the American people did rot want.
We have the warning of history as to what this means. It has meant in turn that Spain, Venice, Germany or Great Britain received the blame or suspicion of the world for what the Jewish financiers have done. It is a most important consideration that most of the national animosities that exist today arose out of resentment against what Jewish money power did under the camouflage of national names.

  "The British did this," "The Germans did this," when it was the International Jew who did it, the nations being but the marked spaces on his checker board. Today, around the world the blaming word is heard, "The United States did this.
 If it were not for the United States the world would be in a better shape. The Americans are a sordid, greedy, cruel people."

  Why? Because the Jewish money power is centered here and is making money out of both our immunity and Europe's distress, playing one against the other; and because so many so-called "American business men" abroad today are not Americans at all - they are Jews.

  Citizens wake up with a start to find that even the white nations are hardly allowed to see each other nowadays except through Jewish eyes. Great Britain and France seldom see a special American spokesman who is not a Jew.
That may be the reason why they reciprocate by sending Jews to us, thinking perhaps that we prefer them.

Chapter Two - Angles of Jewish Influence
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 27, 2011, 03:24:10 PM
I would highly suggest all read the book that is the subject of this discussion. It is probable that Santangel was a marrano and he did put up about 1/2 the $ needed for the expedition. At the time, it was thought he was a true converso.

As far as Torres-- I am not aware of any evidence that he was a marrano, so Ford is off here stretching the tobacco incident into future judaix control of that vice.

Like the crusades-- there were some marrano Templars--  a few judaix( because of the expulsion) did find their way onto the ships of Columbus. This by no means implys that he was in collusion w/ them.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 27, 2011, 04:03:42 PM


As far as Torres-- I am not aware of any evidence that he was a marrano, so Ford is off here stretching the tobacco incident into future judaix control of that vice.

Like the crusades-- there were some marrano Templars--  a few judaix( because of the expulsion) did find their way onto the ships of Columbus. This by no means implys that he was in collusion w/ them.

I didnt see any citations from FORD in the book, Im reading it now.

But I trust his info was very well researched.

He had alot on the line to discredit himself by using bogus facts.  I dont think he did.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: jacob gold on June 27, 2011, 04:35:36 PM
I sincerely doubt that Columbus was a jew  ..... WHY? ... Jews would be screeching that for the past 400 yrs
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 27, 2011, 04:43:06 PM
I didnt see any citations from FORD in the book, Im reading it now.

But I trust his info was very well researched.

He had alot on the line to discredit himself by using bogus facts.  I dont think he did.

Why would there be any 'citations' from Henry Ford in a book written 400 yrs ago by the son of Columbus? If U mean the intro by Keen pls say so. I do not believe Keen is Catholic and like the marrano WD, he does try to implicate Columbus in the Ugly American scenario to some extent. It never occurs to him the Chas the Great had to subdue the white pagan Saxons by force the way Columbus had to subdue the Aboriginal Indians in some cases.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 27, 2011, 04:58:44 PM
I sincerely doubt that Columbus was a jew  ..... WHY? ... Jews would be screeching that for the past 400 yrs

They are screeching it now...

Google 'Columbus Jewish'


I dont really care and have no opinion.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 27, 2011, 05:01:16 PM
Why would there be any 'citations' from Henry Ford in a book written 400 yrs ago by the son of Columbus? If U mean the intro by Keen pls say so. I do not believe Keen is Catholic and like the marrano WD, he does try to implicate Columbus in the Ugly American scenario to some extent. It never occurs to him the Chas the Great had to subdue the white pagan Saxons by force the way Columbus had to subdue the Aboriginal Indians in some cases.

Which of Fords Facts do you question?  I listed it straight from his book.

If Sedevacantists are now Marranos, I will take that over being a Jesuit subverter & Heretic, Roscoe.

Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 27, 2011, 07:49:31 PM
I didnt see any citations from FORD in the book, Im reading it now.


Forgive me for being confused as to what your meaning is here.

What is Ford's source for the statement that 'Columbus himself tells us that he "consorted  much" with Judaix'? It should be remembered that H Ford was a Freemason and no friend of the Church.

There is no such thing as a 'sedevacantist'. The Marrano WD is on record in this Forum as a partisan of Ho Chi Minh!!
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 01:10:27 PM
Forgive me for being confused as to what your meaning is here.

If you have to ask, you need to re read my post.
Quote
The first letter he wrote detailing his discoveries was to a Jew.
Indeed, the eventful voyage itself which added to men's knowledge and wealth "the other half of the earth" was made possible by Jews. The pleasant story that it was Queen Isabella's jewels which financed the voyage has disappeared under cool research.

  There were three Maranos or "secret Jews" who wielded great influence at the Spanish court: Luis de Santagel, who was an important merchant of Valencia and who was "farmer" of the royal taxes; his relative, Gabriel Sanchez, who was the royal treasurer; and their friend, the royal chamberlain, Juan Cabrero.

These worked unceasingly on Queen Isabella's imagination, picturing to her the depletion of the royal treasury and the likelihood of Columbus discovering the fabulous gold of the Indies, until the Queen was ready to offer her jewels in pawn for the funds.
But Santagel craved permission to advance the money himself, which he did, 17,000 ducats in all, about 5,000 pounds, perhaps equal to 40,000 pounds today.

  Associated with Columbus in the voyage were at least five Jews: Luis de Torres, interpreter; Marco, the surgeon; Bernal, the physician; Alonzo de la Calle, and Gabriel Sanchez.
Luis de Torres was the first man ashore, the first to discover the use of tobacco; he settled in Cuba and may be said to be the father of Jewish control of the tobacco business as it exists today.
  Columbus' old patrons, Luis de Santagel and Gabriel Sanchez, received many privileges for the part they played in the work,




Quote
What is Ford's source for the statement that 'Columbus himself tells us that he "consorted  much" with Judaix'? It should be remembered that H Ford was a Freemason and no friend of the Church.

Henry Ford was MORE Catholic than most Catholics. And did more than his share of exposing Jewry and its dangers.
Ford did not cite any work, I trust his work is valid. Its been confirmed by many other scholars.


Quote
There is no such thing as a 'sedevacantist'. The Marrano WD is on record in this Forum as a partisan of Ho Chi Minh!!

This chit again? 
If there is No Sedevacantist, then the Vatican 2 Church is still the valid, licit and lawful Church
The Vatican 2 Church today is promoting error & heresy, therefore it is not a Valid Church.

Youre on recording PIMPING the Gulf of Tonkin 'Incident' which never occurred and the Catholic officials assassinated in Vietnam for Jewry.

You have nothing but 'attack the messenger' tactics, like calling me a Marrano or stating there is no Sedevacantists.
The more discerning here KNOW youre full of sh*t. 
And a Subverter, in typical Jesuit fashion.

Jesuits led the charge of destruction via Vatican 2, and before.  Much of the order was Jews.
You have not a leg to stand on credibility wise here.

Founder
(http://www.bc.edu/content/bc/research/cjl/about/upcomingevents/_jcr_content/content/textimage_0/image.img.png)


Jesuit Cardinal and devil incarnate
(http://www.shrineofsaintjude.net/Rabbi%20Heschel%20and%20Cardinal%20Bea.jpg)

Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 28, 2011, 01:46:44 PM

Ford did not cite any work....
[/quote]

That is exactly what I suspected.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 28, 2011, 01:50:35 PM
[quote

Youre on recording PIMPING the Gulf of Tonkin 'Incident' which never occurred and the Catholic officials assassinated in Vietnam for Jewry.


[/quote]

We all know that it is only the Aug  4 attack that is Possibly a mirage. The unprovoked Aug 2 attack on the Maddox did happen.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 02:05:30 PM
Ford did not cite any work....


That is exactly what I suspected.

His (Fords) Claims were not groundbreaking..his was a novel, not a research text.

Every charge against Columbus,  ie the company he kept, is rather well known and Ford was not the first to write this.

Its not an indictment, its fact. 

That does not imply Columbus was or wasnt a Marrano. 

Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 02:06:57 PM
[quote

Youre on recording PIMPING the Gulf of Tonkin 'Incident' which never occurred and the Catholic officials assassinated in Vietnam for Jewry.




We all know that it is only the Aug  4 attack that is Possibly a mirage. The unprovoked Aug 2 attack on the Maddox did happen.


Words Like POSSIBLY, are Jew speak.

You are defending the deaths of 2 Million people who never harmed America or threatened us, a Catholic nation that we laid waste to, on a pack of Lies.

You should be ashamed, but people like you, in subverter fashion, have little shame.

It does not fit your agenda.

Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 02:22:30 PM
I have no opinion on Columbus ancestry.

But Ive seen some compelling arguments from both sides..


Quote
Was Columbus Jewish?

Columbus employed peculiar dates and phrases unique to the Hebrew people. Instead of referring to the "destruction" or "fall of Jerusalem," he used the phrase "the destruction of the second house." He also employed the Hebrew reckoning of 68 a.d. instead of 70 a.d. A marginal note dated 1481 is immediately given its Hebrew equivalent of 5241, etc.

He boasted that he was related to King David, some of his letters were described as written in an "unknown script" (Hebrew?), and he is said to have used a unique triangular signature similar to inscriptions found on gravestones of ancient Jewish cemeteries in Spain and Southern France.

Was Columbus a Gentile or a Jew? Was he a Marrano or a Converso? Was he Cristoforo Colombo the Italian Catholic or Crist: bal Col: n the Spanish Jew?

In the final analysis, Columbus' ethnic background is not the important issue, but rather-as is ultimately true for each of us also-his spiritual condition.

The Word of God instructs us to "seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all things will be added unto us."11
In this regard Columbus wrote: "No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Saviour, if it is just and if the intention is purely for His service."

**NOTES**

   1. Encyclopaedia Britannica, Vol. 16, p. 670f.
   2. Romans 15:24, 28.
   3. See our Audio Book The Kingdom of Blood.
   4. Columbus was no Genoese patriot: He fought on the Portuguese side in the battle of Cape St. Vincent, August 13, 1476 (Encyclopaedia Britannica, Vol. 16, p. 668).
   5. This passage, along with Psalm 77:19, also encouraged Matthew Fontaine Maury (1806-1873) to pursue mapping "the pathways in the sea" and thus become the Father of Oceanography.
   6. Encyclopaedia Britannica, Vol. 16, p. 688.
   7. Roger Bacon, Opus maius, iv, 4; copied in the Imago mundi (1480) by Cardinal Pierre d'Ailly, quoted in Will Durant's The Story of Civilization, Vol. 4, p. 1010.
   8. A regathering prophesied in Jeremiah 23:3; 29:14; and 32:37.
   9. Encyclopaedia Judaica, Vol. 15, p. 242.
  10. For a summary of Tisha B'av, see our Audio Book The Feasts of Israel.
  11. Matthew 6:33.

AND

on Jew Watch

Columbus'sMedinah?

October 14 is commemorated by our neighbours to the south as Columbus Day.
Now this fact would not normally deserve mention in a Jewish newspaper. As we shall see in a moment, however, there has been some weighty scholarly debate over the possibility that Columbus, though undeniably a devout and zealous Catholic, might also have been the proud descendant of Spanish Jews. Ironically, this view has been championed by some patriotic Spaniards, who would rather have him a Spanish Jew than an Italian gentile.

Here are a few of the interesting facts that have been raised in connection with this question:

*There is evidence that Columbus spoke Spanish while still living in Italy, an unusual situation unless his family had originated in Spain. Spanish-speaking Jewish refugees from the Inquisition were numerous in the Genoa area.

*The form "Colón" which Columbus adopted as the Spanish equivalent of his last name was not the expected form (which would have been"Colom" or "Colombo"). It was however a common Jewish variation on the name.

*Columbus was known to frequent the company of Jews and former Jews,among whom were some noted astronomers and navigators, as well as his official translator. Marranos figure prominently among Columbus's backers and crew. Throughout his life he demonstrated a keen knowledge of the Bible and the geography of the Holy Land. In fact in one place he calculates the date from the destruction of the "Second House" [=Temple], counting from the traditional (and erroneous) Jewish date of 68 C.E., rather than the generally held 70.

*Columbus began the official report of his first voyage to America, addressed to Ferdinand and Isabella, with the following words:"And thus, having expelled all the Jews from all your kingdoms and dominions, in the month of January, Your Highnesses commanded me that...I should go to the said parts of India." This is a strange fact to mention in this context, and it is not even correct: The order of expulsion was not signed until March 31st!

*The connections between the timing of Columbus's voyage and the expulsion of Spanish Jewry are indeed curious. Historians have noted that, though Columbus was not scheduled to set sail until August3rd, he insisted that his entire crew be ready on board a full day earlier. The timing becomes more intriguing when we consider that August 2nd 1492 was the day that had been ordained for the last Jews of Spain to depart the country. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were departing Spain on that black day.

*When this coincidence of dates was first noted by the Spanish biographer S. de Madariaga, the English Jewish historian Cecil Roth supplemented it with a further "coincidence": August 2nd1492 coincided with the Ninth of Av, the Jewish fast of mourning for the destruction of the Jerusalem Temples! It was as if Columbus had arranged to remain on board ship for that ill-omened day, and to depart only afterwards.

It would be impossible, in the context of a short newspaper article,to enumerate all the evidence that has been adduced on this question. De Madariaga devoted a five-hundred page tome to proving this thesis.
 Some of the most important arguments are however summarized in the relevant entry in the Encyclopedia Judaica, written by the encyclopedia's editor-in-chief Cecil Roth. While Roth himself expresses some scepticism about the explorer's Jewish origins, it is significant that the entry is not preceded by the special sign that normally indicates articles about non-Jews.

--------

[1] First Publication: JFP, Oct. 14 1991.

Bibliography:

Cecil Roth, "Who Was Columbus?" in: Personalities and Events in Jewish History, Philadelphia 1953. Salvador de Madariaga, Christopher Columbus, Being the Life of theVery Magnificent Lord Don Cristoból Colón, 1939
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 28, 2011, 03:29:24 PM
His (Fords) Claims were not groundbreaking..his was a novel, not a research text.

Every charge against Columbus,  ie the company he kept, is rather well known and Ford was not the first to write this.

Its not an indictment, its fact. 
 

So far zero evidence has been provided to support this alleged 'fact'.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 28, 2011, 03:36:47 PM
I have no opinion on Columbus ancestry.

But Ive seen some compelling arguments from both sides..


AND

on Jew Watch

Columbus'sMedinah?

October 14 is commemorated by our neighbours to the south as Columbus Day.
Now this fact would not normally deserve mention in a Jewish newspaper. As we shall see in a moment, however, there has been some weighty scholarly debate over the possibility that Columbus, though undeniably a devout and zealous Catholic, might also have been the proud descendant of Spanish Jews. Ironically, this view has been championed by some patriotic Spaniards, who would rather have him a Spanish Jew than an Italian gentile.

Here are a few of the interesting facts that have been raised in connection with this question:

*There is evidence that Columbus spoke Spanish while still living in Italy, an unusual situation unless his family had originated in Spain. Spanish-speaking Jewish refugees from the Inquisition were numerous in the Genoa area.

*The form "Colón" which Columbus adopted as the Spanish equivalent of his last name was not the expected form (which would have been"Colom" or "Colombo"). It was however a common Jewish variation on the name.

*Columbus was known to frequent the company of Jews and former Jews,among whom were some noted astronomers and navigators, as well as his official translator. Marranos figure prominently among Columbus's backers and crew. Throughout his life he demonstrated a keen knowledge of the Bible and the geography of the Holy Land. In fact in one place he calculates the date from the destruction of the "Second House" [=Temple], counting from the traditional (and erroneous) Jewish date of 68 C.E., rather than the generally held 70.

*Columbus began the official report of his first voyage to America, addressed to Ferdinand and Isabella, with the following words:"And thus, having expelled all the Jews from all your kingdoms and dominions, in the month of January, Your Highnesses commanded me that...I should go to the said parts of India." This is a strange fact to mention in this context, and it is not even correct: The order of expulsion was not signed until March 31st!

*The connections between the timing of Columbus's voyage and the expulsion of Spanish Jewry are indeed curious. Historians have noted that, though Columbus was not scheduled to set sail until August3rd, he insisted that his entire crew be ready on board a full day earlier. The timing becomes more intriguing when we consider that August 2nd 1492 was the day that had been ordained for the last Jews of Spain to depart the country. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were departing Spain on that black day.

*When this coincidence of dates was first noted by the Spanish biographer S. de Madariaga, the English Jewish historian Cecil Roth supplemented it with a further "coincidence": August 2nd1492 coincided with the Ninth of Av, the Jewish fast of mourning for the destruction of the Jerusalem Temples! It was as if Columbus had arranged to remain on board ship for that ill-omened day, and to depart only afterwards.

It would be impossible, in the context of a short newspaper article,to enumerate all the evidence that has been adduced on this question. De Madariaga devoted a five-hundred page tome to proving this thesis.
 Some of the most important arguments are however summarized in the relevant entry in the Encyclopedia Judaica, written by the encyclopedia's editor-in-chief Cecil Roth. While Roth himself expresses some scepticism about the explorer's Jewish origins, it is significant that the entry is not preceded by the special sign that normally indicates articles about non-Jews.

--------

[1] First Publication: JFP, Oct. 14 1991.

Bibliography:

Cecil Roth, "Who Was Columbus?" in: Personalities and Events in Jewish History, Philadelphia 1953. Salvador de Madariaga, Christopher Columbus, Being the Life of theVery Magnificent Lord Don Cristoból Colón, 1939

The marrano Dubya D's repeated attempts to make Columbus a Judaix ( using judaix  and masonic{ Ford}) sources belies the remark above that he has no opinion in the matter.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 04:12:22 PM
So far zero evidence has been provided to support this alleged 'fact'.

You cant argue or debate worth a darn.

These are incontrovertable TRUTHS and FACTS.
If you believe otherwise, make the claim.  No implication is made except as it relates to the record.  That many Jews traveled with Columbus and financed the voyage, amongst others.




'The first letter he wrote detailing his discoveries was to a Jew.
Indeed, the eventful voyage itself which added to men's knowledge and wealth "the other half of the earth" was made possible by Jews.

  There were three Maranos or "secret Jews" who wielded great influence at the Spanish court: Luis de Santagel, who was an important merchant of Valencia and who was "farmer" of the royal taxes; his relative, Gabriel Sanchez, who was the royal treasurer; and their friend, the royal chamberlain, Juan Cabrero.

  Associated with Columbus in the voyage were at least five Jews: Luis de Torres, interpreter; Marco, the surgeon; Bernal, the physician; Alonzo de la Calle, and Gabriel Sanchez.
Luis de Torres was the first man ashore, the first to discover the use of tobacco; he settled in Cuba and may be said to be the father of Jewish control of the tobacco business as it exists today.

  Columbus' old patrons, Luis de Santagel and Gabriel Sanchez, received many privileges for the part they played in the work.'



Have fun trying to obfuscate facts...cant wait for your response..
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 04:14:53 PM
The marrano Dubya D's repeated attempts to make Columbus a Judaix ( using judaix  and masonic{ Ford}) sources belies the remark above that he has no opinion in the matter.

Dipsh*t...

Henry Ford never insinuated or implied that Columbus was a Jew, and spent not more than 1 page writing of Columbus, as it related to America.

He simply wrote of the influence of Jews in Spain at the time of the voyage of Columbus.

Quote
'The story of the Jews in America begins with Christopher Columbus.
On August 2, 1492, more than 300,000 Jews were expelled from Spain and on August 3, the next day, Columbus set sail for the west, taking a group of Jews with him.

  They were not, however, refugees, for the prophetic navigator's plans had aroused the sympathy of influential Jews for a long period previously. Columbus himself tells us that he consorted much with Jews.





Jew Watch is very credible, and does cite their work. 
Quote
Salvador de Madariaga, Christopher Columbus, Being the Life of the Very Magnificent Lord Don Cristoból Colón, 1939
Jew Watch does imply Columbus is in all likelihood of Jewish descent.


and Cecil Roth is one of the foremost Jewish Historians in the world, cited by historians of all religious Faiths.



Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 28, 2011, 04:30:07 PM
Apparently this has to be repeated. Fords statement above is that " Columbus HIMSELF informs us that he 'consorted MUCH' with judaix"

I am assuming that Columbus didn't tell that to the freemason Ford in person. The only other poss explanation is that Columbus puts this in something he wrote. Is it unreasonable to ask for the source therefore of that statement?

So far Dubya D's only response is that no source is given and he( an alleged Catholic) trusts the Freemason Ford.

Hey Dubya-- Was Ho chi Minh a Communist?

U are a liar when saying that that there was no attack on the Maddox. MAYBE that scenario is correct on Aug 4 but NOT ON Aug 2, 1964.

Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 05:53:25 PM
Apparently this has to be repeated. Fords statement above is that " Columbus HIMSELF informs us that he 'consorted MUCH' with judaix"

I am assuming that Columbus didn't tell that to the freemason Ford in person. The only other poss explanation is that Columbus puts this in something he wrote. Is it unreasonable to ask for the source therefore of that statement?

So far Dubya D's only response is that no source is given and he( an alleged Catholic) trusts the Freemason Ford.

Hey Dubya-- Was Ho chi Minh a Communist?

U are a liar when saying that that there was no attack on the Maddox. MAYBE that scenario is correct on Aug 4 but NOT ON Aug 2, 1964.

So are you:

1. Denying that Columbus had Jews on his voyage?
2. Denying That Columbus' first letter was to his Jewish compatriot?
3. That any of these men on the Columbus ship were Jewish?

  Associated with Columbus in the voyage were at least 5 Jews:
Luis de Torres, interpreter; Marco, the surgeon; Bernal, the physician; Alonzo de la Calle, and Gabriel Sanchez.



4. Are you still Pimping Killing off 2 million people in Vietnam, and sacrificing 200,000 of our own for Jewry?

U are a liar when saying that that there was no attack on the Maddox. MAYBE that scenario is correct on Aug 4 but NOT ON Aug 2, 1964.


Quote
The official story was that North Vietnamese torpedo boats launched an "unprovoked attack" against a U.S. destroyer on "routine patrol" in the Tonkin Gulf on Aug.

2 -- and that North Vietnamese PT boats followed up with a "deliberate attack" on a pair of U.S. ships two days later.

The truth was very different.
Rather than being on a routine patrol Aug. 2, the U.S. destroyer Maddox was actually engaged in aggressive intelligence-gathering maneuvers -- in sync with coordinated attacks on North Vietnam by the South Vietnamese navy and the Laotian air force.

"The day before, two attacks on North Vietnam...had taken place," writes scholar Daniel C. Hallin. Those assaults were "part of a campaign of increasing military pressure on the North that the United States had been pursuing since early 1964."

On the night of Aug. 4, the Pentagon proclaimed that a second attack by North Vietnamese PT boats had occurred earlier that day in the Tonkin Gulf -- a report cited by President Johnson as he went on national TV that evening to announce a momentous escalation in the war: air strikes against North Vietnam.
But Johnson ordered U.S. bombers to "retaliate" for a North Vietnamese torpedo attack that never happened.



 Are you that dense to not understand what war is and WHO it benefits?
You take stupid to a whole new level..

And yes, Im the only real Catholic in this debate.  That much is obvious, you Jew war pimp.

Bet this makes you Proud, LBJ stating he assassinated the Catholic Diem..
http://www.youtube.com/v/DeNv_62v6WQ&feature=related



Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 06:10:11 PM
For Roscoe, War Pimp

'What I want, is somebody that can lay up some plans to trap these guys, and whoop the Hell out of them, Kill some of them.
Thats what I want to do.'
-LBJ


April

http://www.youtube.com/v/K2Wl2M4yLkY


Youre No Catholic Roscoe, You serve the Anti Christ and are a heretic Subverter.
You are a Hellbound Heretic.


Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 28, 2011, 06:15:31 PM
There will be no source provided for the fantasy of H Ford. Amazing how the alleged Catholic Dubya D takes the word of the Freemason H Ford.

The murder of Diem is a different subject than the Maddox. I am not the worlds biggest JFK fan( his decision to pull us from Vietnam resulted in the crime) but I do not believe that he specifically approved it. 
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 06:26:01 PM
There will be no source provided for the fantasy of H Ford. Amazing how the alleged Catholic Dubya D takes the word of the Freemason H Ford.


FORD did not break any new ground with this report of Jews on the Columbus voyage.
You yourself, have admitted to these very facts in earlier posts.
Said facts are easily verifiable.  Ford was simply regurgitating known facts.


The murder of Diem is a different subject than the Maddox. I am not the worlds biggest JFK fan( his decision to pull us from Vietnam resulted in the crime) but I do not believe that he specifically approved it.



JFK inherited advisors in Nam, about 16,000.
After his death via Jewry, and Gulf of Tonkin lie, there were over 500,000 troops in VIetnam.
Im sure youre proud.

Whatever credibility you had, (Little) is now shot. 
Youre done.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 28, 2011, 06:27:05 PM
Was Ho Chi Minh a Communist?
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 06:38:31 PM
Was Ho Chi Minh a Communist?

Communism and Capitalism are 2 sides of the same coin...


Neither are worth killing or dying for. 


Are you really this Freakin stupid?

Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 07:11:18 PM
Im guessing you cant count or read numbers and why you purposefully avoided my questions.

This time I will letter them for you.



So are you:

A. Denying that Columbus had Jews on his voyage?
B. Denying That Columbus' first letter was to his Jewish compatriot?
C. That any of these men on the Columbus ship were Jewish?

  Associated with Columbus in the voyage were at least 5 Jews:
Luis de Torres, interpreter; Marco, the surgeon; Bernal, the physician; Alonzo de la Calle, and Gabriel Sanchez.



D.   Are you still Pimping Killing off 2 million people in Vietnam, and sacrificing 200,000 of our own for Jewry?
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 07:14:08 PM
Pimp away, Roscoe..

Not sure how you live with yourself, Neo Con Satanist.



http://www.youtube.com/v/Ev2dEqrN4i0

Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 28, 2011, 07:31:18 PM
Apparently W no comprende that there is more to Communism than an economic foil to Capitalism. The most dangerous aspect of Communism is Cultural. This Revolutionary philosophy originates in the Revolutionary Commune at the Hotel DeVille and Its leader was Danton.

Ho Chi Minh is a partisan of this CC and the result is evident in the Communist tyranny that enslaves SE Asia and the Philippines today. The Communist Aquino has recently forbidden the attempt by the Marcos family to have the former Pres body buried in the Nat Cemetery.

Speak for yourself W but I think fighting Communists in SE Asia( or anywhere else for that matter) is of the most critical importance.

The Maddox was attacked by the Communist Navy of Ho on Aug 2 1964.

I have Never said that no Judaix found their way onto some of Columbus' ships. I will report my thoughts on the letter when I have finished the book by Ferdinand. Unfortunately I am using it as a car book and will not be done  for a while.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 28, 2011, 07:34:17 PM
W will not post any victims of COMMUNIST Tyranny-- that's for sure.

Torres was a true converso as far as I know-- W has shown no evidence that he was a marrano.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 07:43:05 PM
W will not post any victims of COMMUNIST Tyranny-- that's for sure.

Torres was a true converso as far as I know-- W has shown no evidence that he was a marrano.

As a Catholic, how can you, in a sane state, defend Going To war and killing Millions for either economic Jewish system, be it Capitalism or Communism, where your own safety or freedom is not jeopardized?

You are  weak shill.



Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 07:43:55 PM
Apparently W no comprende that there is more to Communism than an economic foil to Capitalism. The most dangerous aspect of Communism is Cultural. This Revolutionary philosophy originates in the Revolutionary Commune at the Hotel DeVille and Its leader was Danton.

Ho Chi Minh is a partisan of this CC and the result is evident in the Communist tyranny that enslaves SE Asia and the Philippines today. The Communist Aquino has recently forbidden the attempt by the Marcos family to have the former Pres body buried in the Nat Cemetery.

Speak for yourself W but I think fighting Communists in SE Asia( or anywhere else for that matter) is of the most critical importance.

The Maddox was attacked by the Communist Navy of Ho on Aug 2 1964.

I have Never said that no Judaix found their way onto some of Columbus' ships. I will report my thoughts on the letter when I have finished the book by Ferdinand. Unfortunately I am using it as a car book and will not be done  for a while.

Go waive your AmeriKan Flag with the rest of the idiots that worship the culture of death..

Commie Bad, Imperialist Jew Capitalism good.

Got it, thanks.

Bet you have dreams of Kissinger the Jew.  I will lend you some Scope and kneepads.

Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 28, 2011, 07:52:57 PM
W will not post any victims of COMMUNIST Tyranny-- that's for sure.

Torres was a true converso as far as I know-- W has shown no evidence that he was a marrano.

Ive covered Jew Russian Communism in depth here.

Ive cited Pinays Book as a historical reference and source for naming all Jew Communists in Europe.

Ive embeeded photos, and recommended Aleksandr Solzhenitzhens book to all.

And the book Gulag.

(http://www.waterstones.com/wat/images/nbd/m/978184/343/9781843430858.jpg)

(http://macaulay.cuny.edu/eportfolios/bernstein08/files/2008/12/gulag1.jpg)




But I dont defend the mass murder of 2 million innocents and WMDs dropped on civilians, at the behest of Jewry and Jew liars like LBJ and Kissinger.
Youre no Catholic, Roscoe.






Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on June 29, 2011, 11:41:52 AM
I have never denied that the Vietnam War was conducted as a farce. This doesn't make the effort in itself wrong. Is W denying that Ho was a Communist or is he one and as such a good guy?

Fact is that Ho's  'peoples navy' opened fire on an American ship that was not engaged in any hostilities.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on June 29, 2011, 01:10:42 PM
I have never denied that the Vietnam War was conducted as a farce.
You defend the official story of Tonkin, which is a known lie...not much else to say.



This doesn't make the effort in itself wrong.
Why were US Patrol Boats 5000 miles away, on a coastline of a 3rd world country where Catholic Rulers were assasinated by us, and provoking such attacks?
LBJ stated clearly months prior what he intended to do IN Vietnam.
'What I want, is somebody that can lay up some plans to trap these guys, and whoop the Hell out of them, Kill some of them.
Thats what I want to do.'
-LBJ



Is W denying that Ho was a Communist or is he one and as such a good guy?
If Ho was a Capitalist, would it make him more honorable in your book?
I dont care what his political persuasions were. 
He succeeded as a result OF our efforts and destroying the Catholic ruling class of Vietnam. The World Bank plays a part in that as well.


Fact is that Ho's  'peoples navy' opened fire on an American ship that was not engaged in any hostilities.
A US Ship 5000 miles from home, on a coastline that wasnt ours, but theirs, and with 16,000 'Advisors' aka Intelligence agents, slithering all over that nation causing unrest, certainly cant be called hostilities.

Got it, thanks

Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on July 03, 2011, 07:08:09 PM
mr marrano( aka Dubya)-- Are u actually reading this book? Do u have the Keen edition or another one? Is anyone else?

The USS Maddox-- on a legal anti-communist mission-- was( w/ o provocation) attacked by Ho's alleged 'peoples' navy on Aug 2 1964
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: Sue on July 03, 2011, 08:34:47 PM
Was Christopher Columbus Jewish? Why is it so hard to tell?

The Case for Columbus being Jewish

Say what??  I wrote what follows several years ago for the Purim Issue of a local informal publication.   I have always liked the possibility.  During the 500th year celebration of Columbus's 1492 voyage to America (or near about), two references to the subject in the regular media were, I thought, pretty crummy.  The first was in a TV documentary on Columbus produced in Italy which I think was shown on the A&E channel.  An Italian expert on Columbus and his voyages was asked what he thought of the possibility.  A paraphrase of his answer was "No way! He was very religious."   EXCUSE ME?  The other, I think, was in a major magazine, probably Time, but I'm not sure.  The logic presented was: Columbus was not a nice man.  Therefore, the Jews should find someone else to claim as their own.   So much for historical accuracy.

I wrote this originally in February 1992 for a Purim article.  I've revised it slightly to reflect both a change in writing style and the availability of more data.  This first article does not present evidence that Columbus was Jewish. The one that follows lists some of the "evidence."   The purpose of the first article is to show why Columbus's (or anyone else living in that time period's) origins are so obscure.

    Was he or wasn't he....we'll never know. Purim is a time for celebration and retelling the story of a Queen who found it necessary to hide her Jewish heritage. It is a time when many dress up in costumes disguising their identities for fun. This year is the 500th anniversary of Christopher Columbus' voyage to "the new world". There is controversy about how good a man he was and whether or not his contributions were worth the cost. Parsha Noah may provide a clue. The only sailor in the Chummash, Noah, was called a righteous man in his generation. The times we live in set the standards by which we should be judged.

    Another controversy, usually ignored in the popular media, is whether or not Admiral Columbus was a Jew, disguised as a Christian (Converso or Marrano). There is significant circumstantial evidence that he was... and if so, he wasn't disguised for fun.  We do know that a converted Jew (Luis de Santange), with influence in the Spanish Court, provided financing for his voyage and that his crew contained Jewish members recently converted to Christianity.  We also know that his interpreter Luis de Torres, was baptized (from Judaism) shortly before the expedition, and was among the first ashore, when Columbus landed in Cuba on November 2, 1492.

    So why is it so difficult to tell what his background was and what was living in Spain at that time really like?

    We recall that the Jews were exiled to Babylonia where they established a center of learning. When this period ended, about the year 1000, the center of Jewish education moved to Spain for over 200 years. This was possible after the Muslims captured the Iberian Peninsula in 756. During the first 400 years of Moorish rule, the Jewish population flourished. Jews, Moslems, and Christians lived side by side in prosperity until about the 12th century when Moslem fanatics began to persecute those of other faiths. Many of our great scholars came from this environment. For example, the Rambam, Moses Maimonides, was born in Cordova during this golden era. His family was forced to flee from Moslem fanatics, however, when he was about 13 years of age.

    Jews were dispersed throughout Europe following the Babylonian exile. The crusades started in 1095 ending reasonable living conditions for Jews. The crusaders slaughtered the Jewish populations of many communities in their path to Jerusalem. Subsequently, it became open season on Jews almost everywhere. Absurd libels about Jews were spread and horror followed throughout Europe. Jews suffered officially sanction degradation under both Islamic and Christian rule, often life threatening under the latter. Pope Innocent III, was particularly cruel. When he presided over the Fourth Lateran Council in Rome (1215), he insisted that the terrible laws suffered by the Jews and often Moslems be made more severe. The Jewish population was expelled from England, most of France, and most of Germany.

    Spain presented a better environment than the rest of Europe. In the 12th through the 14th centuries, some tolerance was still shown to Jews. The Christians and Moslems were busy fighting each other over the ownership of the land. Jews performed vital functions in the Spanish administration and culture. Perhaps, the most important reason for tolerance was the expectation that Jews would succumb to gentle persuasion and convert to Christianity. Since the fundamental concepts of other religions do not make sense to those knowledgeable of our religious heritage, the voluntary conversion plan failed, as it usually does.

    When this became clear, the tolerance shown to Jews disappeared. Suddenly, all Jews had to identify themselves by wearing a round yellow patch over their heart. Sound familiar? Savage pogroms started in Seville and spread throughout the Jewish quarters of Toledo, Valencia, Barcelona, and Seville. Thousands of Jews were slaughtered. Many others "voluntarily" converted to Christianity. The sincerity and religious loyalty of the "new Christians" or conversos (marranos) were always suspect. Instead of eliminating persecution, conversion made it worse.

    In 1412, a law was passed in Spain depriving Jews and Moslems of the right to hold office, bear arms, drink or eat with Christians, change residences etc. etc. Jews were required to wear their hair and beards long. Although he was not born in Spain, we have a good idea of the world Columbus faced. Some say he was the child of two conversos. Initially conversos prospered achieving high positions in court, in the Church, and marrying into important families. They became a threat on all fronts.

    After 1449, these laws were extended to conversos and included forbidding the right to testify in court against Christians. Although Jews were under constant pressure to convert, the conversos began to have it worse.

    The Franciscan friar Alonso de Espina published a book called the "Fortalitium Fidei" in 1460. The book listed blood libels, "host degradations", and a variety of satanic misdeeds allegedly committed by conversos and Jews. One of his objectives was to show that the conversos were bad Christians (heretics) and therefore subject to the horrors of the Inquisition. Fortunately, at the time, Spain did not have an active Inquisition. Instead the Conversos became victims of bloody riots in Toledo and Valladolid and were expelled from Cordova in 1473.

    Then the political system of Spain changed for the worse. Queen Isabelle of Castile and King Ferdinand of Argon, married and became the "Catholic monarchs", partially uniting Spain. The Prior of the Dominican monastery of St. Paul in Seville, Alfonso de Hojeda, preached to the Queen about the heretical nature of the conversos.  Prior to her ascendancy to the throne, the infamous Tomas de Torquemada made Isabelle promise to eliminate heresy when she gained the throne. Were the Conversos committing heresy (for Catholicism)? Certainly, many did. Most did not convert due to a change of belief but through a hope for physical survival. They practiced keeping Kosher and observed the Sabbath and holidays in secret. Some sincere converts reported those that still practiced the faith of their fathers. We have many stories of brave Jews practicing Judaism in secret and in the open. We have many more stories of martyrs burned at the stake, alive or just after being murdered.

    Queen Isabelle restored the Inquisition in Castile in 1478 to search out heretic conversos. King Ferdinand extended its influence to Argon, a short time later. Torquemada was appointed Chief Inquisitor the autumn of 1483.  An edict was published requesting all citizens to report anybody they suspected of heresy. Now the successful Converso, heretic or not, could be removed by renouncing him or her to the Inquisition... anonymously. So many were reported that the tribunal was quickly forced to move to larger quarters outside of the city. There were some outstanding acts of individual and group resistance but all apparently failed. More than 700 were burned at the stake and 5,000 others received lesser punishments in the first 3 years. 13,000 Conversos were condemned over 12 years.  Their property was divided between the Pope and the King.

    Ironically, Jews that refused conversion were not in danger from the Inquisition, where it did exist.

    On March 31, 1492 the Edict of Expulsion (also called the Alhambra Decree) was signed.  Every Jew in Spain was forced to choose between conversion to Christianity or leaving the country forever without their possessions. 150,000 Jews left Spain, many first went to Portugal, and following expulsion to the Ottoman Empire. On July 31st (7th of Av), the last Jew left Spain according to some sources and August 2nd (9th of Av), according to others. Columbus sailed on August 3, 1492.  He did insist, however, that all of his crew be on board August 2nd, which was the not only the day all Jews had to leave Spain but also the 9th of AV.

    Small wonder, Columbus's Jewish roots, if genuine, are obscure. If he were known to be a Jew, he could not have received support at the Court of Isabelle and Ferdinand. If he were known to be a Converso, his fate might have been worse. It is tragic that so many Jews gave up so much hoping to be spared persecution.  It is ironic that they were rewarded with a higher level of persecution. Worst of all, Queen Isabelle, responsible for such persecution, torture and death is revered and admired by many.

http://www.fortunecity.com/millenium/southwater/113/was_christopher_columbus_jewish.htm

The Edict of Expulsion

The Alhambra Decree ( Followed by Isaac Abrabanel's Answer)
Source: Courtesy of Ovid Jacob; http://www.cyborganic.co

This is the decree of expulsion promulgated by Queen Isabella and Kind Ferdinand of Spain in 1492, which forced the Spanish Jews, the Sephardim, to leave Spain for ever.

King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, by the grace of God, King and Queen of Castile, Leon, Aragon and other dominions of the crown - to the prince Juan, to dukes, marquees, counts, the holy orders, priors, knight commanders, lords of the castles, cavaliers, and to all Jews, men and women of whatever age, and to anyone else this letter may concern - health and grace unto you.

You well know that in our dominion, there are certain bad Christians that judaised and committed apostasy against our Holy Catholic faith, much of it the cause of communications between Jews and Christians. Therefore, in the year 1480, we ordered that the Jews be separated from the cities and towns of our domains and that they be given separate quarters, hoping that by such separation the situation would be remedied. And we ordered that and an Inquisition be established in such domains; and in twelve years it has functioned, the Inquisition has found many guilty persons.

Furthermore, we are informed by the Inquisition and others that the great harm done to the Christians persists, and it continues because of the conversations and communications that they have with the Jews, such Jews trying by whatever manner to subvert our holy Catholic faith and trying to draw faithful Christians away from their beliefs.

These Jews instruct these Christians in the ceremonies and observances of their Law, circumcising their children, and giving them books with which to pray, and declaring unto them the days of fasting, and meeting with them to teach them the histories of their Law, notifying them when to expect Passover and how to observe it, giving them the unleavened bread and ceremonially prepared meats, and instructing them in things from which they should abstain, both with regard to food items and other things requiring observances of their Law of Moses, making them understand that there is no other law or truth besides it. All of which then is clear that, on the basis of confessions from such Jews as well as those perverted by them, that it has resulted in great damage and detriment of our holy Catholic faith.

And because we knew that the true remedy of such damages and difficulties lay in the severing of all communications between the said Jews with the Christians and in sending them forth from all our reigns, we sought to content ourselves with ordering the said Jews from all the cities and villages and places of Andalusia where it appeared that they had done major damage, believing that this would suffice so that those from other cities and villages and places in our reigns and holdings would cease to commit the aforesaid. And because we have been informed that neither this, nor the justices done for some of the said Jews found very culpable in the said crimes and transgressions against our holy Catholic faith, has been a complete remedy to obviate and to correct such opprobrium and offense to the Christian faith and religion; because every day it appears that the said Jews increase in continuing their evil and harmful purposes wherever they reside and converse; and because there is no place left whereby to more offend our holy faith, as much as those which God has protected to this day as in those already affected, it is left for this Holy Mother Church to mend and reduce the matter to its previous state inasmuch as, because of our frailty of humanity, it could occur that we could succumb to the diabolical temptation that continually wars against us so easily if its principal cause were not removed, which would be to expel the said Jews from the kingdom. Because whenever a grave and detestable crime is committed by some members of a given group, it is reasonable that the group be dissolved or annihilated, the minors for the majors being punished one for the other; and that those who pervert the good and honest living on the cities and villages and who by their contagion could harm others, be expelled from the midst the people, still yet for other minor causes, that would be of harm to the Republic, and all the more so for the major of these crimes, dangerous and contagious as it is.

Therefore, with the council and advice of the eminent men and cavaliers of our reign, and of other persons of knowledge and conscience of our Supreme Council, after much deliberation, it is agreed and resolved that all Jews and Jewesses be ordered to leave our kingdoms, and that they never be allowed to return.

And we further order in this edict that all Jews and Jewesses of whatever age that reside in our domain and territories, that they leave with their sons and daughters. their servants and relatives, large and small, of whatever age, by the end of July of this year, and that they dare not return to our lands, not so much as to take a step on them not trespass upon them in any other manner whatsoever. Any Jew who does not comply with this edict and is to be found in our kingdom and domains, or who return to the kingdom in any manner, will incur punishment by death and confiscation of all their belongings.

We further order that no person in our kingdom of whatever station or noble status hide or keep or defend any Jew or Jewess, either publicly or secretly, from the end of July onwards, in their homes or elsewhere in our reign, upon punishment of loss of their belongings, vassals, fortresses, and hereditary privileges.

So that the said Jews may dispose of their household and belongings in the given time period, for the present we provide our assurance of royal protection and security so that , until the end of the month of July, they may sell and exchange their belongings and furniture and other items, and to dispose of them freely as they wish; and that during said time, no one is to do them harm or injury or injustice to their persons or to their goods, which is contrary to justice, and which shall incur the punishment that befalls those who violate our royal security.

Thus we grant permission to the said Jews and Jewesses to take out their goods and belongings out of our reigns, either by sea or by land, with the condition that they not take out either gold or silver or minted money or any other items prohibited by the laws of the kingdom.

Therefore, we order all councilors, justices, magistrates. cavaliers, shield-bearers, officials, good men of the city of Burgos and of other cities and villages of our reigns and dominions, and all our vassals and subjects, that they observe and comply with this letter and all that is contained in it, and that they give all the help and favor that is necessary for its execution, subject to punishment by our sovereign grace and by confiscation of all their goods and offices for our royal state house.

And so that this may come to the notice of all, and so that no one may pretend ignorance, we order that this edict be proclaimed in all the plazas and usual meeting places of any given city; and that in the major cities and villages of the diocese, that it be done by the town crier in the presence of the public scribe. and that neither one nor the other should do the contrary of what was desired, subject to the punishment by our sovereign grace and deprivation of their offices and by confiscation of their goods to whosoever does the contrary.

And we further order that evidence be provided to the court, in the manner of signed testimony, regarding the manner in which the edict is being carried out.

Given in this city of Granada on the thirty first day of March in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ -1492.
Signed, I, the King, I the Queen, Juan de Coloma, Secretary of the King and Queen, which I have written by order of our Majesties.

*********************************************

Edict Response by Isaac Abravanel

Your Majesties, Abraham Senior and I thank you for this opportunity to make our last statement on the behalf of the Jewish communities that we represent. Counts, dukes, and marquees of the court, cavaliers and ladies.... it is no great honor when a Jew is asked to plead for the safety of his people.

But it is a greater disgrace when the King and Queen of Castile and Aragon, indeed of all Spain, have to seek their glory in the expulsion of a harmless people.

I find it very difficult to understand how every Jewish man, woman, and child can be a threat to the Catholic faith. Very, very strong charges.

We destroy you?

It is indeed the opposite. Did you not admit in this edict to having confined all Jews to restricted quarters and to having limited our legal and social privileges, not to mention forcing us to wear shameful badges? Did you not tax us oppressively? Did you not terrorize us day and night with your diabolical Inquisition? Let me make this matter perfectly clear to all present: I will not allow the voice of Israel to be stilled on this day.

Hear, O heavens, and give ear, King and Queen of Spain, for I, Isaac Abravanel, speak unto you. I and my family are descended directly from King David. True royal bold, the blood of the Messiah, runs in my veins. It is my inheritance, and I proclaim it now in the name of the God of Israel.

On behalf of my people, the people of Israel, the chosen of God, I declare them blameless and innocent of all crimes declared in this edict of abomination. The crime, the transgression, is for you, not us, to bear. The unrighteous decree you proclaim today will be your downfall. And this year,which you imagine to be the year of Spain's greatest glory, will become of Spain's greatest shame.

As honor is the reward of individual virtue, so too worldly renown of kings and queens is their proper due for noble deeds. So, too, when unseemly acts are committed by and individual, that person's reputation's suffers. And when kings and queens commit shameful deeds, they do themselves great harm. As it is said, the greater the person who errs, the greater the error.

Errors, if recognized early, can be corrected. The loosened brick that supports the structure can be reinserted into position. So, too, a mistaken edict if caught in time can be undone. But religious zeal has undermined reason, and misguided counsel has perverted sound judgement. The error of the edict will soon become irreversible as the very deed which it proclaims.

Yes, my king and queen, hear me well: error, your error, profound and uncorrectable, the likes of which Spain has never seen before. You and you alone are responsible. As arms measure the might of a nation, so arts and letters measure its finer sensibilities. Yes, you have humbled the Moslem infidel with the force of your army, proving yourselves able in the art of war. But what of your inner state of mind? By what right do your Inquisitors go about the countryside burning books by the thousands in public bonfires? By what authority do churchmen now want to burn the immense Arabic library of this great Moorish palace and destroy its priceless manuscripts? By whose rights? By whose authority? Why, it is by your authority, my king and queen. In your heart of hearts, you distrust the power of knowledge, and you respect only power. With us Jews it is different. We Jews cherish knowledge immensely. In our homes and in our prayer houses, learning is a lifelong pursuit. Learning is our lifelong passion; it is at the core of our being; it is the reason, according to our sages, for which we were created. Our fierce love of learning could have counterbalanced your excessive love of might. We could have benefited from the protection offered by your royal arms, and you could have profited the more from our community's advancement and exchange of knowledge. I say to you we could have helped each other.

As we are reminded of our own powerlessness, so your nation will suffer from the forces of disequilibrium that you have set in motion. For centuries to come, your descendants will pay dearly for your mistake of the present. As it is might of arms you most admire, you shall verily become a nation of conquerors - lusting after gold and spoils, living by the sword and ruling with a fist of mail.

Yet you shall become a nation of illiterates; your institutions of learning, fearing the heretical contamination of alien ideas from other lands, and other peoples, will no longer be respected. In the course of time, the once great name of Spain will become a whispered byword among the nations: Spain, the poor ignorant has-been; Spain, the nation which showed so much promise and yet accomplished so little.

And then one day Spain will ask itself: what has become of us? Why are we a laughing - stock among nations? And the Spaniards of that day will look into their past and ask themselves why this came to be. And those who are honest will point to this day and this age as the time when their fall as a nation began. And the cause of their downfall will be shown to be none other than their revered Catholic sovereigns, Ferdinand and Isabella, conquerors of the Moors, expellers of the Jews, founders of the Inquisition, and destroyers of the inquiring Spanish mind.

This edict is a testimony to Christian weakness. It shown that we Jews are capable of winning the centuries - old argument between the two faiths. It explains why there are "false Christians." that is, Christians whose faith has been shaken by the arguments by the Jew who knows better. It explains why the Christian nation would be as injured as it claims to be. Desiring to silence Jewish opposition, the Christian majority has decided not to argue any further, but rather to eliminate the source of dangerous counter - argument. The opportunity to the Jews is not to be granted after today.

This is the last opportunity on Spanish soil to state our case. In these last few moments of freedom granted to me by the King and Queen, I as the spokesman of Spanish Jewry, will dwell on one point of theological dispute. I will leave you with a parting message although you will not like it.

The message is simple. The historical people of Israel, as it has traditionally constituted itself, is the final judge of Jesus and his claims to be the Messiah. As the Messiah was destined to save Israel, so it must be for Israel to decide when it has been saved. Our answer, the only answer that matters, is that Jesus was a false Messiah. As long as the people of Israel lives, as long as Jesus's own people continue to reject him, your religion can never be validated as true. You can convert all the peoples and savages of the World, but as long as you have not converted the Jew, you have proved nothing except that you can persuade the uninformed.

We leave you with this comforting knowledge. For although you can dispose of our power, we have the higher truth. Although you can dispose of our persons, you cannot dispose of our sacred souls and the historical truth to which only we bear witness.

Listen, King and Queen of Spain, for on this day you have joined the list of evil-doers against the remnant of the House of Israel. If you seek to destroy us, your wishes will come for naught, for greater and more powerful rulers have tried to finish with us, and all have failed. Indeed, we shall prosper in other lands far from here. For wherever we go, the God of Israel is with us. And as for you King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, God's hand will reach out and punish the arrogance in your heart.

Woe unto you, authors of iniquity. For generations to come, it will be told and retold how unkind was your faith and how blind was your vision. But more that your acts of hatred and fanaticism, the courage of the people of Israel will be remembered for standing up to the might of imperial Spain, clinging to the religious inheritance of our fathers, resisting your enticements and your untruths.

Expel us, drive us from this land that we cherish no less than you do. But we shall remember you, King and Queen of Spain, as our Holy Books remember those who sought our harm. We Jews shall haunt your accomplishments on the pages of history... and the memories of our sufferings will inflict greater damage upon your name that anything you can ever hope to do to us.

We shall remember you and your vile Edict of Expulsion forever.

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Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on July 03, 2011, 10:57:31 PM
are u reading the book?
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: Sue on July 04, 2011, 06:56:55 AM
are u reading the book?

No, I am not reading the book.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: WaltDisney on July 04, 2011, 07:20:55 AM
Apparently W no comprende that there is more to Communism than an economic foil to Capitalism. The most dangerous aspect of Communism is Cultural. This Revolutionary philosophy originates in the Revolutionary Commune at the Hotel DeVille and Its leader was Danton.

Ho Chi Minh is a partisan of this CC and the result is evident in the Communist tyranny that enslaves SE Asia and the Philippines today. The Communist Aquino has recently forbidden the attempt by the Marcos family to have the former Pres body buried in the Nat Cemetery.

Speak for yourself W but I think fighting Communists in SE Asia( or anywhere else for that matter) is of the most critical importance.

The Maddox was attacked by the Communist Navy of Ho on Aug 2 1964.

I have Never said that no Judaix found their way onto some of Columbus' ships. I will report my thoughts on the letter when I have finished the book by Ferdinand. Unfortunately I am using it as a car book and will not be done  for a while.

Moron

Capitalism is a Jew wet dream, right out of the Protocols, because it stresses MATERIALISM which Supplants religion and Faith.

Communism and Capitalism are BOTH evil.  They both come From the Jew.

I cant debate with the unlearned.  Please educate yourself and get back to me in a few months, we can carry on this conversation.

Belloc and Chesteron have some decent writings on the ills of Capitalist materialism.  I suggest them to you.





Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: Sue on July 04, 2011, 09:10:04 AM
Roscoe:

The Illuminati created Communism to be used as an adversary against [individual] liberty. An indication of that fact came from a statement by Dr. Bella Dodd, who was a member of the National Committee of the U.S. Communist Party. She indicated that when their Board could not reach a decision, one of their members would go to the Waldorf Towers in New York City to consult with Arthur Goldsmith. Goldsmith's decision would later be confirmed by Communist officials in Russia. Goldsmith was not a Communist, but was a wealthy 'capitalist'.

The Communist movement was created out of the roots of Socialism, in fact, it was President Hoover who said: "Socialism is the forerunner of communism."

Capitalism ---- An economic system based on the “Survival of the fittest”.

Socialism ----- An economic system based on “You get your share no matter what your contribution is”.

Communism – An economic system based on “You put in your fair share, you get your fair share”.

What each of these terms mean to an economy can be described as follows:

CAPITALISM

This term was first coined by Karl Marx to describe a system in which small group of people own large amount of money, land, resources. It puts all the economy is the hands of wealthy business people with the only aim of maximizing profits. Such economies remain free of government intervention with all the policies being determined by private individuals. The result is monopoly, and a huge gap in the earnings among the employer class and the worker class. Though its very good for trades and industries to flourish, it can lead to worker exploitation and unethical business pratices. “Laissez-Faire” capitalism which means pure capitalism with no government intervention is said to have never existed in practice.

SOCIALISM

It is considered to be the transitional phase between the capitalism and communism. Thus, you would find all communists advocating for socialism because it lays the foundations for communism. It advocates an egalitarian society where everyone shares equal wealth and power. There is a considerable disagreement over how the distribution should take place. Hence, socialism can be said to be between extreme capitalism and extreme communism with it being nearer to communism.

Socialism is liberal. More people have say in how the economy works. [however,

COMMUNISM

According to Karl Marx, this is the final stage towards development of egalitarian society.  Here all the resources are state-owned and it determines its distribution based on the needs in an effort to bring about equality.

Communism is conservative. Fewer and fewer people  have any say in how the economy works. By using state coercion to fulfill unmet demands, it restricts individual freedom. Communism necessarily takes the form of totalitarianism, or the tyranny of all over one since its upto the state to decide who gets what. Historically, communist societies have been characterized by the absolute rule of a revolutionary party leader, beneath whom everyone is equally subservient.

It becomes very difficult for such an economy to survive in a large population when it becomes difficult for equal distribution of resources.

One can safely say that its the mixed economy (a bit of all the forms of economies) that in today’s age serve most of the countries well (US minus recession being a prime example). China also with its centrally planned economy is moving towards market-oriented economy thus becoming a mixed economy.

TPTB promoted Obama -- Obama is/was a Gramsci student (I recall reading that if Gramsci had been a better orator, he, instead of Lenin would have risen to the top.)

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were all Saul Alinsky disciples!

     (http://rashmanly.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/saul-alinsky-11.jpg?w=236&h=400)
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: Sue on July 04, 2011, 09:39:18 AM
AND THEN - at some point - a whole new cycle begins again! If you look back in history, it is a continuous cycle where the rich get richer.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: jacob gold on July 04, 2011, 03:10:34 PM
So what's Madoff?


1 ---- A Communist

2..... A Socialist

3 ..... Just a common Jew thief


Like three black mambas in a cage and everyone is debating what philosophy do they aspire to. Well, the short answer is they are soulless creatures, just common snakes.  Try and pet one and see what happens
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on July 06, 2011, 08:49:44 PM
What is going over the head of Sushi and W is that Communism is much more than an economy.

W-- If communism is evil why are U a partisan of Ho's 'Peoples Army'?
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: Sue on July 06, 2011, 10:23:26 PM
What is going over the head of Sushi and W is that Communism is much more than an economy.

W-- If communism is evil why are U a partisan of Ho's 'Peoples Army'?

What is going over my head?

Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.[1]

In Marxist theory, communism is a specific stage of historical development that inevitably emerges from the development of the productive forces that leads to a superabundance of material wealth, allowing for distribution based on need and social relations based on freely-associated individuals.[2][3] The exact definition of communism varies, and it is often mistakenly, in general political discourse, used interchangeably with socialism; however, Marxist theory contends that socialism is just a transitional stage on the road to communism. Leninists revised this theory by introducing the notion of a vanguard party to lead the proletarian revolution and to hold all political power after the revolution, 'in the name of the workers' and supposedly with worker participation, in a transitional stage between capitalism and socialism.

Communists such as council communists and non-Marxist libertarian communists and anarcho-communists, as well as some Marxist-Leninists who have progressively abandoned many of the basic assumptions of Leninism, oppose the idea of a vanguard party and a transition stage, and advocate for the construction of full communism to begin immediately upon the abolition of capitalism. There is a very wide range of theories amongst those particular communists in regards to how to build the types of institutions that would replace the various economic engines (such as food distribution, education, and hospitals) as they exist under capitalist systems — or even whether to do so at all. Some of these communists have specific plans for the types of administrative bodies that would replace the current ones, while always qualifying that these bodies would be decentralised and worker-owned, just as they currently are within the activist movements themselves. Others have no concrete set of post-revolutionary blueprints at all, claiming instead that they simply trust that the world's workers and poor will figure out proper modes of distribution and wide-scale production, and also coordination, entirely on their own, without the need for any structured "replacements" for capitalist state-based control.

In the modern lexicon of what many sociologists and political commentators refer to as the "political mainstream", communism is often used to refer to the policies of states run by communist parties, regardless of the practical content of the actual economic system they may preside over. Examples of this include the policies of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam where the economic system incorporates "doi moi", the People's Republic of China where the economic system incorporates "socialist market economy", and the economic system of the Soviet Union which was described as "state capitalist" by some communists who increasingly opposed the Soviet model as it progressed over the course of the 20th century (e.g. Maoists, Trotskyists and libertarian communists) — and even at one point by Vladimir Lenin himself.[4]

Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: jacob gold on July 07, 2011, 08:15:58 AM
Communism was great for the Russians  ....  It's not like the Jews stole the country's wealth under a phony fascade.
Title: - Life Of Admiral Columbus
Post by: roscoe on July 18, 2011, 09:45:01 PM
I am repeatedly astonished by W's denouncing of Phelps, Oxley et al. Does not W use 'black pope' tactics?

This is not a defense of the v2 anti-jesuits.