Author Topic: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?  (Read 7074 times)

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Offline Proemio

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Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« on: December 28, 2007, 07:02:56 AM »
It's now 24 hours after the event, and I'm surprised that this is not discussed anywhere:
Something went spectacularly wrong - the 'terrorist suicide bomber' goofed.

Unless there is an official medical/autopsy report, I would expect a flood of 'news items' along this line:
"Initial reports of bullets to the head were - wrong, mis-communicated, whatever."
The usual stuff when facts are broadcast before everyone gets the correct spin delivered.

The bombing was to mask the gangland, maffia-style killing of two bullets to the head - a classic 'western' MO - but was triggered a second or so too late. The traditional MO in that culture would be massive bombs and/or a hail of bullets. See: numerous successful and unsuccessful assassinations, including the few on Musharraf himself.

The bullets to the neck were likely fired by a member of the entourage provided by her NewYork 'backers'.

For a little more background on this and some another little know wrinkles, I wrote the following:
(from "Hot Topics" in the RonPaulForums in response to this ;-)

Quote from: shasshas
She is a really good example of female leadership...

So true - in a twisted way. Conceited, corrupt and as dumb as a rock...

I'll explain, lest being accused of a gratuitous smear:

Several months ago, there was an interesting news item in the foreign press (not a word in America or anywhere in the FreeWorld (try Alternative, Pakistani or Russian sources).

There was a lower level SCO meeting in Moscow, with China, many -Stans, and Iran and Pakistan invited as observers. Musharraf delegated his Foreign Minister to attend. Foreign Minister is important, because it was not the level of representation required.

Washington (Rice), immediately decided that Pakistan's Foreign Minister MUST attend some hurriedly organized meeting on the very same weekend.

Pakistan said NO. Not only did they embarrass TIC (The International Community) by refusing to jump, the Foreign Minister spelled it out in a press conference. He said (paraphrasing from memory) "We are part of our region, not theirs. Our future and our security is linked with the nations attending the Moscow conference. We will always have to live with them as neighbors. They also treat us with respect". Oups...

Shortly after the "really good example of female leadership..." who was living it up in London, was summoned to NewYork, where she spent a few weeks getting buttered up, before she returned 'in triumph' (according to breathless MSM reports) to Pakistan. No less than three times did she for a popular uprising where only a few thousand hapless sauls showed up for a beating; each appeal a bigger flop.

She was never meant to become Prime Minister, where she would be useless except for getting pot holes fixed and paraded on western TV to speak, fraudulently, in the name of Pakistan; Musharraf would still be President, command the military, select the Foreign Minister, etc.

Intervention Plan 1: Musharraf refuses to let her in. Invade to 'restore democracy'.
Intervention Plan 2: Musharraf lets her in. Kill her. Hope for mayhem. Invade to 'restore democracy'.

Of course, AlQueda will take responsibility, but am confident that the maffia-style shots were fired from someone in her NewYork appointed entourage. I'm sure as well, that the shots to the head were not supposed to come to light either, because it does neither fit the culture nor 'our' propaganda - it's a dead giveaway. Bombs or hails of bullets is the tradition.

Question: How will Musharraf handle the mess. He's not amused, for sure. Neither is the region (Russia, China, Iran, etc.). It can go either way: Invasion and breakup, or more resistance to military intervention and 'international finance' hegemony, both getting weaker by the hour.

Someone needs a war, if possible a world war. They need it yesterday. Iran is off the table for a while at least. Pakistan is a possible out...

Offline dean_saor

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2007, 07:35:36 AM »
Yes, that analysis figures. She was certainly set up. I don't believe the "suicide bomber" business either - if your scenario is correct (and it's definitely a front runner), the same people who arranged the double-tap could have wired the vehicle she was travelling in, or one of the escorts, to blow up on command: presumably after their man had legged it.
Cha do dhùin doras nach d'fhosgail doras eile;
No door shut but another door opened

Offline Proemio

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2007, 07:36:23 AM »
Spiegel headline - just now:
"Pakistans Oppositionsführerin wurde durch Metall-Splitter getötet - nicht wie zunächst angenommen durch Schüsse des Attentäters."
Transl: Pakistan's opposition leader killed by shrapnell - not by bullets from the assassin, as originally assumed.

Funny how that works...

Offline dean_saor

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2007, 07:43:49 AM »
Could just be the standard muddying of the waters and sowing of confusion.
Cha do dhùin doras nach d'fhosgail doras eile;
No door shut but another door opened

Offline NOLAJBS

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2007, 12:03:30 PM »
Funny how that works...

Quote from: Wikipedia introducing another angle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto
On 28 December 2007, the Interior Ministry of Pakistan stated that "Bhutto was killed when she tried to duck back into the vehicle, and the shock waves from the blast knocked her head into a lever attached to the sunroof, fracturing her skull". The Interior Ministry also stated that the assassins bullets missed Bhutto and that she was not wounded by shrapnel. Earlier, however, a hospital spokesman stated that she suffered shrapnel wounds to the head and said that that was the cause of death. 86, 87

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Offline Proemio

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2007, 01:21:05 PM »
Could just be the standard muddying of the waters and sowing of confusion.

Yes, except that the muddying part is of crucial importance in this case.

As NOLAJBS' excerpt shows, there is no discounting of the bullets, because too many people are on record for at least hearing the two shots before the bang; there is likely audio of it as well. There is also the guy from her entourage interviewed on CNN, and similar stuff all over the pace. The shooter and the bomber were not the same person, according to him. He was also extraordinarily calm about his friends death. It sounded like a dispassionate report to head office, which it probably was - it beats leaving phone records. Apparently, he travelled in the car in front and looked back at just the right moment, as luck would have it. He could very well be the one carrying the remote for the wired car you mentioned.

I wonder how many 'suicide bombings' were masking mob-style hits of a similar nature - quite clever, actually...

Offline NOLAJBS

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2007, 02:37:38 PM »
Apparently, the BBC is bringing out the wooden puppets for a show:

Quote from: BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7163307.stm
Pakistan says it has intelligence that al-Qaeda assassinated opposition politician Benazir Bhutto at an election rally on Thursday.
...

Citing what it said was an intercepted phone call, the interior ministry said the killing had been ordered by an "al-Qaeda leader", Baitullah Mehsud.

...

There was, he added, "irrefutable evidence that al-Qaeda, its networks and cohorts were trying to destabilise Pakistan".

...

Both al-Qaeda and the Taleban are perfectly plausible culprits since they hated everything the secular Ms Bhutto stood for, he adds.

...

But critics of President Pervez Musharraf are unlikely to be convinced by his government's insistence that it has proof al-Qaeda ordered the murder.

With Iran out of the question, Pakistan gets the limelight stage right, possibly gearing up for a "hot topic" for the presidential debates ...
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Offline Proemio

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2007, 03:44:13 PM »
With Iran out of the question, Pakistan gets the limelight stage right, possibly gearing up for a "hot topic" for the presidential debates ...

Hehe - "possibly gearing up" is a good one.
In at least McCain's case, it's as if G-d told him to be ready for prime-time.
McCain/Lieberman for 2008 - that's the ticket - pure magic...

I have a question for any military expert:
How long does it take to get a tank batallion moving from order to engagement?
Let's allow that the unit was preposition near the possible engagement, but was not prepped for any planned action on xxxxh and not in a hot zone. Something happens -> get ready -> set -> go - type of thing.

Offline dean_saor

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2007, 03:54:59 PM »
I'd guess about a week. I'm not really up to speed on tanks - I was an infantryman - but there's a lot of logistics and stuff involved in getting any armoured or armoured infantry unit moving.
Cha do dhùin doras nach d'fhosgail doras eile;
No door shut but another door opened

Offline Proemio

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2007, 04:16:52 PM »
I'd guess about a week. I'm not really up to speed on tanks - I was an infantryman - but there's a lot of logistics and stuff involved in getting any armoured or armoured infantry unit moving.

Thanks. That's even longer than I thought - now...

Within an hour of Bhutto's assassination, an Israeli tank brigade went into Gaza - the first incursion since 'piece broke out' in Annapolis -  killing a bunch and blowing up stuff (yesterday's news items on page 77 or so). Some internet commentators (Rivero for one) called it opportunistic; to me it looked like something a bit more than that... and I'm of course not suggesting that was the reason for the assassination, just a fringe-benefit of being in the know. Wonder what else went under the radar...

Offline amonvanroark

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2007, 05:59:25 PM »
My comments in regards to this post will be in Red and included in the body of the quote.

==========================================================

It's now 24 hours after the event, and I'm surprised that this is not discussed anywhere:
Something went spectacularly wrong - the 'terrorist suicide bomber' goofed.

Unless there is an official medical/autopsy report, I would expect a flood of 'news items' along this line:
"Initial reports of bullets to the head were - wrong, mis-communicated, whatever." And this now is what we have.
The usual stuff when facts are broadcast before everyone gets the correct spin delivered. And they are having a hell of a time figuring it out. Just too many variables involved. Who do you call the perpetrator, who do you support, and it changes minute to minute, as Musharraf (sp??)  attempts damage control, and attempts to prop up his own shaky position.

The bombing was to mask the gangland, maffia-style killing of two bullets to the head - a classic 'western' MO - but was triggered a second or so too late. The traditional MO in that culture would be massive bombs and/or a hail of bullets. See: numerous successful and unsuccessful assassinations, including the few on Musharraf himself. Agreed, they tend to do things in a big way. They seem to like massive reactions to that which they dislike; likely for public consumption.

The bullets to the neck were likely fired by a member of the entourage provided by her NewYork 'backers'. And just who were these backers, and who were they backed by? JOOS????

For a little more background on this and some another little know wrinkles, I wrote the following:
(from "Hot Topics" in the RonPaulForums in response to this ;-)

Quote from: shasshas
She is a really good example of female leadership...

So true - in a twisted way. Conceited, corrupt and as dumb as a rock...

I'll explain, lest being accused of a gratuitous smear:

Several months ago, there was an interesting news item in the foreign press (not a word in America or anywhere in the FreeWorld (try Alternative, Pakistani or Russian sources).

There was a lower level SCO meeting in Moscow, with China, many -Stans, and Iran and Pakistan invited as observers. Musharraf delegated his Foreign Minister to attend. Foreign Minister is important, because it was not the level of representation required.

Washington (Rice), immediately decided that Pakistan's Foreign Minister MUST attend some hurriedly organized meeting on the very same weekend.

Pakistan said NO. Not only did they embarrass TIC (The International Community) by refusing to jump, the Foreign Minister spelled it out in a press conference. He said (paraphrasing from memory) "We are part of our region, not theirs. Our future and our security is linked with the nations attending the Moscow conference. We will always have to live with them as neighbors. They also treat us with respect". Oups... Now we are getting somewhere. The Pakis, rather than following the dictats of Kindasleezy, did as they pleased; that which was in their best interests, ostensibly. Having dealt with Pakis in a professional basis in the past, I can only say that Kindaslezzy is probably the worst person the US could send down to deal with them; she would be regarded as little better than a dog, and an extremely ugly one at that; definitely not a person whose orders are to be followed.

Shortly after the "really good example of female leadership..." who was living it up in London, was summoned to NewYork, where she spent a few weeks getting buttered up, before she returned 'in triumph' (according to breathless MSM reports) to Pakistan. No less than three times did she for a popular uprising where only a few thousand hapless sauls showed up for a beating; each appeal a bigger flop.

She was never meant to become Prime Minister, where she would be useless except for getting pot holes fixed and paraded on western TV to speak, fraudulently, in the name of Pakistan; Musharraf would still be President, command the military, select the Foreign Minister, etc. At least in this, she would have served some purpose, other than that she finally ended up serving.

Intervention Plan 1: Musharraf refuses to let her in. Invade to 'restore democracy'.
Intervention Plan 2: Musharraf lets her in. Kill her. Hope for mayhem. Invade to 'restore democracy'.

Of course, AlQueda spelling error her: let me correct it: al-CIA-duhh. There, that's a lot better!!will take responsibility, but am confident that the maffia-style shots were fired from someone in her NewYork appointed entourage. I'm sure as well, that the shots to the head were not supposed to come to light either, because it does neither fit the culture nor 'our' propaganda - it's a dead giveaway. Bombs or hails of bullets is the tradition. Dead, boxed and buried, all within less than 2 days. One must wonder, especially when the media spinners cannot even make up their minds, nor get on track as to what the cause of death was. She is in the ground, and the liars cannot even agree as to why she is.

Question: How will Musharraf handle the mess. I doubt it is his fault, nor was he complicit in it. Just his best buddy, the US, showing him were the bear shit in the buckwheat. Telling him to 'get on the ball, or get on the bus. He's not amused, for sure. Neither is the region (Russia, China, Iran, etc.). It can go either way: Invasion and breakup, or more resistance to military intervention and 'international finance' hegemony, both getting weaker by the hour.

Someone needs a war, if possible a world war. They need it yesterday. Iran is off the table for a while at least. Pakistan is a possible out...

Invasion of Iran is fucked; they cannot go there at the present time, due to the recent information on the nuclear program. Should the joo and neocon wish to invade and create belligerencies with the Pakis, let them.

Iraq was to be a walk in the park, but it didn't happen that way.

Should the goof US leaders, under the directions of their zionist controllers decide to attack, and invade Pakistan, one should wish them the best; the Pakis are not the starving inhabitants of Iraq; they are well fed, and better motivated.


Quote
Within an hour of Bhutto's assassination, an Israeli tank brigade went into Gaza - the first incursion since 'piece broke out' in Annapolis -

Is this not to be expected???
The joo does his nefarious work, and fulfills his lying and cheating schemes when attention is directed elsewhere. 

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Offline rottenjohnh

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2007, 10:23:53 PM »
Conveniently she was knocked just days after Pakistan and Afganistan made a big song and dance about working together to combat extremists.

The pressure to make such an announcement would have come from the "New Yorkers" to take some of the heat away from their hit.

Will be interesting to see how their spin unfolds/unravels..



Offline beige-ape

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2007, 03:53:35 AM »
Now we're being told that she didn't get shot but was killed by shrapnel from the bombing, so ignore everything that you've heard so far....the script is being re-written as we speak !
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Offline beige-ape

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2007, 03:57:30 AM »
Proemio, the IDF have been camped out on the outskirts of Gaza  and some time now and have launched operations into Gaza on a daily basis. The timing of the latest raid was probably just a conicidence. Probably.
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Offline Proemio

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2007, 06:10:44 AM »
Please ignore everything - it was an accident - really, maybe, probably, surely.

The sun-roof-handle crushed her skull - there ought to be a law mandating sun-roof-air-bags.

CNN just emphasized that the unfortunate confusion gives rise to unfortunate conspiracy theories, unfortunately...
Never mind that the conspiracy theory preceded he creation of the unfortunate confusion - news-speak at its best.

Anyhow, this subject is now done for me. On to observing what the hidden hand is doing/dealing, since the magicians now obviously want everyone to argue and obsess about minutia - 911 type distraction - can Gelly be far behind?

Speaking of Gelly; there is a genuine Ron Paul Supporter on RPF sounding exactly like him...

Offline amonvanroark

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2007, 06:17:20 AM »
Quote
Speaking of Gelly; there is a genuine Ron Paul Supporter on RPF sounding exactly like him...

Strange.  :o  Most of the people that I have run across lately that are similar to Gelly seem to support the Huckster!!
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Offline Effendi

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?.....Everything!!
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2007, 08:34:45 AM »
This entire Bhutto case stinks to high heaven.  Bullets/no bullets.  Early bombs, two assailants. To me, the fact that there was no autopsy is all telling.
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Offline beige-ape

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2007, 08:50:04 AM »
Did u see the fire truck hosing down the road ? This was even before they had gotten her body to the hospital. I guess crime scene preservation wasn't top of anyones list  ???
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Offline amonvanroark

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?.....Everything!!
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2007, 02:35:12 PM »
This entire Bhutto case stinks to high heaven.  Bullets/no bullets.  Early bombs, two assailants. To me, the fact that there was no autopsy is all telling.

I agree; one hell of a messed up situation, and they could not get rid of the evidence fast enough. From death, to a box, to planted in about 24 hours, with no post-mortem examination.

Right after it happened, the old bogeyman, Al-CIA-Duh got dragged out of the closet for another go at things, but this has now been largely discredited.

All the earmarks of a govt. inspired assassination, but which government?

It is apparent that the Pakis (Musharraf) are making things up as they go along and hoping to find the least problematic lie to settle on as the truth.

Sorta reminds me of 911.  :(
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Offline Proemio

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Re: Bhutto - what's wrong with this picture?.....Everything!!
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2007, 04:16:35 PM »
...
Sorta reminds me of 911.? :(

In more ways than one, LOL.
I'm now being asked to PROVE that AlQaeda/Musharraf did NOT kill her with a roof handle - or something...

Re: AQ or Musharraf. They are supermen indeed.

They had to know for absolute certain that she will pop her head out of the partially armored car. Not just that, the bomber and the (5,4,3,2,1) shooter(s) had to guess exactly where that would occur. And on top of that, they had to somehow get through the crowd to be on the precise spot, at the precise time when she popped her head out. Not even Musharraf's goons could count on the "popping out of head" even less on "the popping out of head in the right spot".

Ever been in a crowd like that? I have - during carnival starts, when the town square is packed and a few thousand people more are trying to get in from eight different access roads. You get "there" eventually, but not without going all over the place first, and never on time. You may actually get there earlier than you thought, but by the time TheTime comes, the crowd moved you somewhere else - like a drop in agitated water.

So yes, it's like 911; let them come up with a credible story. Until then, shooter inside and car bomb/bomber inside will do.

And since her entourage/advisers where hand-picked in London/NewYork =< Tribe - totally wild speculation of course, since they have absolutely nothing to gain from chaos in their lonely mission for world peace...