Author Topic: The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship  (Read 8841 times)

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Offline jacob gold

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2011, 05:36:38 PM »


Because of the shortage of box cars the NY Jews will have to march to "Das Kamps" in Nevada. Any casualty figure over 50% will be unacceptable.

Offline Germanic American Fox

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2011, 06:07:48 PM »
It was and still is called a "controversy".
I mean by the MSM!

Spray paint each photo with black (to simulate the dense smoke present at the time) and see if you can spot the difference.
So you are saying that there was smoke before the attack! Fact the ship is much smaller it would take a huge visibility problems in order to not see the size deference... In which case they would have trouble knowing to attack or not!

A fact not known to the particular boat commander who made the mistake.

Israel has some of the best intel people in the business they would know!
 
If they believed that the ship in question had just lit up troop positions inland, then it might have influenced their decision to pursue and attack.
Yes that is true... But first they would still have to check if it was Russia in order to not get a nuke dropped on them if they were wrong!

Also in another post you say that Cristol's book is based off survivor testimony... Funny thing but those people on a forum they once had went "when the f*@$ did I say that" a lot about Cristol's testimony. They had all his quotes debunked before the site went down. You could e-mail one of them and ask about it some of them are open to questions I bet!   
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Offline gelignite

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2011, 12:28:36 AM »
So you are saying that there was smoke before the attack!

Yes, there was quite a bit of smoke before the torpedo boats attacked, according to the testimony of the crew. The ship had just been strafed.

Quote
Israel has some of the best intel people in the business they would know!

The boat commander who misidentified the ship wasn't an "intel" person. He was a sailor. He was trying to match what he could see through the smoke with a silhouette in a book.

Quote
But first they would still have to check if it was Russia in order to not get a nuke dropped on them if they were wrong!

They we're in the middle of a war. Having believed that the ship had fired on troop positions, they were attempting to take it out before it reached safe harbor.

No reason to think it was a Russian or American ship that had fired on them.

Quote
Also in another post you say that Cristol's book is based off survivor testimony... Funny thing but those people on a forum they once had went "when the f*@$ did I say that" a lot about Cristol's testimony.

Which people where?

In any event, none of the sailors who testified at the Navy inquiry ever said that Cristol misquoted them. Their testimony is a matter of record.
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Offline WaltDisney

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2011, 06:31:15 AM »
Yes, there was quite a bit of smoke before the torpedo boats attacked, according to the testimony of the crew. The ship had just been strafed.

The boat commander who misidentified the ship wasn't an "intel" person. He was a sailor. He was trying to match what he could see through the smoke with a silhouette in a book.

They we're in the middle of a war. Having believed that the ship had fired on troop positions, they were attempting to take it out before it reached safe harbor.

No reason to think it was a Russian or American ship that had fired on them.

Which people where?

In any event, none of the sailors who testified at the Navy inquiry ever said that Cristol misquoted them. Their testimony is a matter of record.

IraHell attacked the USS LIBERTY in UNMARKED Planes (war Crime), you pathetic Khazar Mongol.

They damn sure knew WHO and what they were attacking.


And true they were at war, but They werent at war on the sea...in International Waters.


At no time was the USS LIBERTY ships ID unknown or mis Id'd.  Transcripts prove they knew it was American.
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Offline FrankDialogue

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2011, 06:40:35 AM »
In fact, Cristol sharply criticized the IDF for their recklessness which led to the incident.

He stops short of saying the attack was intentional.

In fact, his book is largely based on the sworn testimony of the survivors.

Cite, please.

In fact, UHF transcripts of communications between the attacking pilots and their controllers indicate the opposite - that the pilots did not know the ship was American and were ordered to break off ("...leave her!") when they began reading English characters off the hull.


http://www.thelibertyincident.com

Let's KISS; What was Kristol's conclusion about the attack: Accident or deliberate?

Offline gelignite

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2011, 07:01:51 AM »
IraHell attacked the USS LIBERTY in UNMARKED Planes (war Crime), you pathetic Khazar Mongol.

They were clearly marked. Besides, the Israelis were the only ones who had any planes flying by that point in the war... the Egyptian Air Force had already been decimated, and everyone knew this. What would be the point?

Quote
And true they were at war, but They werent at war on the sea...in International Waters.

A meaningless distinction since military engagements have been occurring in "international" waters/airspace since war was first invented. The US pursues enemy vessels into such areas all the time.

Quote
Transcripts prove they knew it was American.

Actually, transcripts have confirmed they did NOT know it was American. The controllers told the pilots to break off when they began reading English characters back to them. They of course complied.


Forget it, Walt.
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Offline gelignite

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2011, 07:05:20 AM »
Let's KISS; What was Kristol's conclusion about the attack: Accident or deliberate?

Of course it was "deliberate". The question is whether Israel knew they were attacking an American ship.

And most all evidence indicates they did not.
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

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Offline FrankDialogue

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2011, 07:09:41 AM »
Of course it was "deliberate". The question is whether Israel knew they were attacking an American ship.

And most all evidence indicates they did not.

You did not answer my question about Cristol...And then you misdirect.

Offline gelignite

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2011, 07:19:45 AM »
You did not answer my question about Cristol...And then you misdirect.

I answered your false dichotomy with crystalline clarity. Cristol's position is that the Israelis did not know they were attacking an American vessel.

It was a "deliberate" attack against a ship they believed (at the time) to be Egyptian. Once they determined otherwise, they broke off the attack.
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

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Offline FrankDialogue

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2011, 07:20:08 AM »


Because of the shortage of box cars the NY Jews will have to march to "Das Kamps" in Nevada. Any casualty figure over 50% will be unacceptable.

As a curiosity, Mr. Jake, will they be allowed to grow enough food there to be self-sustaining?...As you know, in Israel, they have 'turned desert sands into a paradise'...Modern irrigation techniques are available... :)  ;)  :D  ;D

I would say you would be a good candidate for Director of Homeland Security...You are certainly as capable as, for instance, Mr. Chertoff, or Ms. Napolitano.  :)

Offline FrankDialogue

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2011, 07:28:26 AM »
I answered your false dichotomy with crystalline clarity. Cristol's position is that the Israelis did not know they were attacking an American vessel.

It was a "deliberate" attack against a ship they believed (at the time) to be Egyptian. Once they determined otherwise, they broke off the attack.

Thank you, sir.

The testimony of the USS Liberty survivors is that they were clearly flying the flag in daylight in conditions of clear visibility, so there could have been no mistake.

The testimony of Israeli pilots was that they told their commanders that 'You are asking us to attack a US Navy ship?' and they were told 'Yes, proceed.'

The attack was deliberate.

The ship was attacked at least twice: First, by aerial strafing and bombing with napalm, and secondly by torpedo and strafing.

The attack was purposeful, and I can only surmise two reasons: One, to sink ship and block and remove intercepted Israeli transmissions concerning attacks on Syria, and perhaps Egypt, and to demonstrate to the US government who was really in charge.

Offline gelignite

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2011, 07:39:50 AM »
The testimony of Israeli pilots was that they told their commanders that 'You are asking us to attack a US Navy ship?' and they were told 'Yes, proceed.'

There is no such testimony that was given by any of the attacking pilots at any time or anywhere. What you have just repeated is completely made up nonsense. In fact, the actual transcripts of UHF communications indicate that the pilots did NOT know they were attacking an American vessel and were ordered to break off when they began reading English characters off the hull.

[...remaining nonsense snipped...]
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

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Offline FrankDialogue

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2011, 08:13:10 AM »
There is no such testimony that was given by any of the attacking pilots at any time or anywhere. What you have just repeated is completely made up nonsense. In fact, the actual transcripts of UHF communications indicate that the pilots did NOT know they were attacking an American vessel and were ordered to break off when they began reading English characters off the hull.

[...remaining nonsense snipped...]

Yes, there was testimony given by Israelis pilots, who testified anonymously because of fear of retaliation...And I posted it here, but you will have to search through the rather voluminous thread.

Any Israeli pilot would have seen the American flags, as the initial strafing was done at low level...There is absolutely no question the attack was deliberate...Israeli communication would have also know the location of various 6th Fleet ships in the area...The excuse that the Liberty was 'mistaken for an Egyptian ship' is sheer nonsense...The second murderous attack removes any and all doubt.

I found this doing a quick search on Google:



The Israel Air Force warplanes and Israel Navy warships that attacked the USS Liberty on June 8, 1967, at the height of the Six-Day War, were aware that the vessel was an American spy ship, according to new testimony published Thursday in the Chicago Tribune.

The report stated that the U.S. National Security Agency - to which the intelligence gathering ship belonged - was able to intercept IAF communications according to which, at some stage, the pilots identified the ship as American but were nonetheless instructed to push ahead with the attack.


According to the report, some of the transcripts and intelligence information have disappeared, while the rest can be found in U.S. government archives.

Oliver Kirby, the NSA's deputy director for operations at the time of the Liberty attack, is quoted by the Tribune as confirming the existence of the transcripts, saying he personally read them.

"They said, 'We've got him in the zero,'" Kirby was quoted as saying, "whatever that meant - I guess the sights or something. And then one of them said, 'Can you see the flag?' They said 'Yes, it's U.S, it's U.S.' They said it several times, so there wasn't any doubt in anybody's mind that they knew it."

Kirby told the newspaper that the transcripts were "something that's bothered me all my life. I'm willing to swear on a stack of Bibles that we knew they knew."


http://www.haaretz.com/news/israeli-communications-said-to-prove-iaf-knew-liberty-was-u-s-ship-1.230486

Case closed.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 08:32:07 AM by FrankDialogue »

Offline WaltDisney

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2011, 04:44:50 PM »
They were clearly marked. Besides, the Israelis were the only ones who had any planes flying by that point in the war... the Egyptian Air Force had already been decimated, and everyone knew this. What would be the point?
  The Planes were UNMARKEd, the Satanic Star Of David emblem was COVERED!
To most Gentiles and Jews, thats called Unmarked.


Quote
A meaningless distinction since military engagements have been occurring in "international" waters/airspace since war was first invented. The US pursues enemy vessels into such areas all the time.
An Unarmed Ship IN Interational Waters, is not a target TO engage.


Quote
Actually, transcripts have confirmed they did NOT know it was American. The controllers told the pilots to break off when they began reading English characters back to them. They of course complied.
They most certainly did.
Israel had done their Recon for hours, 1 dozen fly-bys waiving at our boys, only latering trying to annihilate the and sink that ship..


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Offline gelignite

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2011, 10:04:58 AM »
Yes, there was testimony given by Israelis pilots, who testified anonymously because of fear of retaliation...And I posted it here, but you will have to search through the rather voluminous thread.

There were no such Israeli pilots. The story is a complete falsehood.

In fact, one of the Israeli pilots who participated in the attack (now retired) gave an interview a few years ago. His account fairly well matches up with the UHF transmissions which have been transcribed by two separate parties. The planes were ordered to break off the attack when they began to suspect that the ship was other than Egyptian.

All other stories are the stuff of tall tales and sea stories. None of the transcripts to which they allude have ever been produced.


Case closed.

[...remaining falsehoods and idiocy dumped...]
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

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Offline WaltDisney

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2011, 10:11:35 AM »
There were no such Israeli pilots. The story is a complete falsehood.

In fact, one of the Israeli pilots who participated in the attack (now retired) gave an interview a few years ago. His account fairly well matches up with the UHF transmissions which have been transcribed by two separate parties. The planes were ordered to break off the attack when they began to suspect that the ship was other than Egyptian.

All other stories are the stuff of tall tales and sea stories. None of the transcripts to which they allude have ever been produced.


Case closed.

[...remaining falsehoods and idiocy dumped...]

Ive read the translated transcripts.
The ship was ID'd by them as American, they flew 12+ Recon Missions waiving to our boys..
Radio Jamming also assures us that the Israelis knew it was a US Ship.

You might take a different approach, you filthy Khazar liar.


Statement by survivor John Hrankowski:
'We had been surveilled all morning and part of the afternoon by Israeli forces. They knew who we were. We heard them reporting over radio who we were and how we were sailing and where we were sailing. They saw the flag and everything else. We were in international waters.'



'The radio jamming is by itself damning evidence that the assailants knew exactly whom they were attacking. Such jamming requires intimate advance knowledge of the target being jammed, obtained by extended monitoring of its signals. And this was selective jamming; it struck Liberty's frequencies and no others.'



 
Israeli Pilot Speaks Up
 
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0693/9306019.htm
 
Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.    

Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.
 
The pilot's protests also were heard by radio monitors in the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon. Then-U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon Dwight Porter has confirmed this. Porter told his story to syndicated columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak and offered to submit to further questioning by authorities. Unfortunately, no one in the U.S. government has any interest in hearing these first-person accounts of Israeli treachery.
 
Key members of the Lyndon Johnson administration have long agreed that this attack was no accident. Perhaps most outspoken is former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer. "I can never accept the claim that this was a mistaken attack, " he insists. Former Secretary of State Dean Rusk is equally outspoken, calling the attack deliberate in press and radio interviews. Similarly strong language comes from top leaders of the Central Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency (some of whose personnel were among the victims), National Security Council, and from presidential advisers such as Clark Clifford, Joseph Califano and Lucius Battle.
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Offline gelignite

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2011, 10:21:03 AM »
  The Planes were UNMARKEd, the Satanic Star Of David emblem was COVERED!
To most Gentiles and Jews, thats called Unmarked.

The planes' insignia was showing just as clearly as that of the boats (which, according to the CO's testimony, were flying Israeli colors).

The problem is the sailors were ducking for cover and could not make out the markings of the fast-flying jets.

Quote
They most certainly did.
Israel had done their Recon for hours, 1 dozen fly-bys waiving at our boys, only latering trying to annihilate the and sink that ship..

So they recon'd the ship with marked planes, but attacked it with unmarked planes?

That doesn't make any sense.

In any case, and I repeat, there were no other planes flying EXCEPT ISRAELI. So why would they attack with unmarked planes (but marked boats)? Who could they have possibly blamed it on if there was no Egyptian Air Force flying?


Can't find a Jew Hater who will ever answer that question.
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

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Offline gelignite

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2011, 10:26:32 AM »
Ive read the translated transcripts.

You've read Cristol's book, then? Oh, so you know that the planes were ordered to break off the attack.

Glad to see you're making progress, Walt.


[...long-since-debunked idiocy shitcanned...]
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

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Offline jacob gold

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2011, 10:40:07 AM »
The US Liberty was a False Flag to inflame an arab war.

Take Cristol, Israeli officials, the jew pilots, and let them speak at holocaust conventions. They can all share a unisex toilet

Offline FrankDialogue

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2011, 11:04:49 AM »
  The Planes were UNMARKEd, the Satanic Star Of David emblem was COVERED!
To most Gentiles and Jews, thats called Unmarked.

 An Unarmed Ship IN Interational Waters, is not a target TO engage.

 They most certainly did.
Israel had done their Recon for hours, 1 dozen fly-bys waiving at our boys, only latering trying to annihilate the and sink that ship..

We see why
gelignite

Major

has not moved up in the ranks...

He is languishing at his current post, command of latrine and mobile plumbing, because when he apply for psychological warfare operations, he cannot lie well enough!  :)