Author Topic: The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship  (Read 8840 times)

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Offline RACHEL1958

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The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
by Jay Cristol

Dulles, Va.: Brassey's, 2002. 294 pp. $27.50

Middle East Quarterly
Fall 2002

Reviewed by Daniel Pipes

Rarely, if ever, has a single incident of war received the scrutiny given to Israel's attack in the midst of the June 1967 War on the U.S.S. Liberty. This episode, which occurred on June 8, left 34 Americans dead and 171 wounded, was immediately acknowledged by Israeli authorities as a ghastly mistake; a multitude of Israeli and American inquiries then confirmed that an error lay at the heart of the tragedy. But conspiracy theories pointing to a purposeful Israeli attack arose quickly and have persisted through the years, promoted in part by members of the Liberty's crew.

Cristol`”a former U.S. naval aviator himself and presently a federal judge in Florida`”has devoted fourteen years to ascertain what actually happened in the Mediterranean Sea off the Egyptian coast that day. His research is stunningly complete, tracking down what appears to be every available document and living participant in the drama, plus providing a great deal of contextual information. He reviews the issue in such great detail that it takes seven pages just to deal with the question of the U.S. flag flying on the Liberty (could the pilots have seen it? given the day's winds, how visible was it? what about the possibility of it being a false flag?).

Cristol finds fault on both the Israeli and American sides (the latter, for example, failed to inform the Israelis of the ship's presence) but comes to an unambiguous conclusion: the attack was indeed a mistake. After showing the impossibility of an intentional Israeli bombing, he then proceeds to show the absurdity of the conspiracy theories. (My favorite of them, from an Egyptian ambassador named Mahmud Qasim: the Israelis spliced the voice of Egypt's Gamal Abdel Nasser to have him convince Jordan's King Husayn into going to war against Israel `“ then tried to cover up this trick by attacking the Liberty, a spy ship capable of figuring out the deception.) After demolishing these false notions, Cristol offers a generous interpretation to his vanquished opponents: "The Liberty incident is a classic illustration of the terrible results that can occur when friendly forces fail to keep their friends informed of their movements."



On January 2, 2003, Jay Cristol replied to his critics on this site with the following comments:

The negative user comments posted in response to the Daniel Pipes review of my book "The Liberty Incident" have one thing in common. They all are from persons who have their minds made up and it appears most are not interested in the facts and have not read the book. If after you read the book and visit my website and then disagree with my conclusion that the attack was a tragic mistake, it is a free country. You should know that the conclusion of tragic mistake is not mine alone.

The U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry convened just days after the event made 52 findings of fact. Three of the most important findings are:

1. Available evidence combines to indicate the attack on Liberty on 8 June was in fact a case of mistaken identity,

2. The calm conditions and slow ship speed may well have made the American flag difficult to identify, and

3. There are no available indications that the attack was intended against a U.S. ship.

The 727 page record, including 155 pages of sworn testimony by the commanding officer of the ship, William McGonagle, and other Liberty crew members, may be obtained from the Navy Judge Advocate General. Admiral John McCain, the Commander-in-Chief of U.S. Naval Forces Europe (and father of Senator McCain), endorsed the Court of Inquiry:

The foregoing comments by the convening authority lead to an overall conclusion that the attack was in fact a mistake.

The Central Intelligence Agency in a letter from its director to a United States Senator dated February 27, 1978 stated the position of the CIA:

It remains our best judgment that the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was not made in malice toward the United States and was a mistake.

Clark Clifford, Chair of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, reported to the President

"Information thus far available does not reflect that the Israeli High Command made a premeditated attack on a ship known to be American."

Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1967 that there was

"No evidence that the individuals attacking. . .knew they were attacking a U.S. ship."

In 1981, the National Security Agency blamed Israeli miscalculations and American communications failures for the tragedy. Eight U.S. Presidents, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush, have all agreed that the Liberty incident was a tragic case of mistaken identity.

My book, "The Liberty Incident," is a collection of all the official investigations plus my own investigation and an analysis of the many contradictory conspiracy theories endorsed by some of the negative commentators. I merely suggest the reasonable approach to reaching a conclusion on this matter is to read the book before making a decision.

From www.danielpipes.org | Original article available at: www.danielpipes.org/article/488

SOURCE

Comment: It's a natural tendency of people want to assign blame. I think we need to raise above and look past all that.

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Offline The_Skunk

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Re: The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2006, 09:46:10 AM »
Thanks for the article - Danny Pipes is top drawer

Offline Effendi

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Re: The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2006, 09:59:57 AM »
In this media blitz we call cyberspace, clever poseurs on all levels claim that it’s not Jews, it’s Zionists; it’s not Jews, it’s Neocons; it’s not Jews, it’s Communists; it’s not Jews, it’s the Illuminati. All these labels are synonyms for Judaism, which is not really a religion, but a crime scheme

Offline RACHEL1958

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Re: The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2006, 10:13:59 AM »
Thanks for the article - Danny Pipes is top drawer

Either your really really sick today or you done really fallen out of bed and bumped your head massively hard. Since when did you start agreeing with anything I post.
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Offline The_Skunk

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Re: The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2006, 10:15:43 AM »
Very poor attitude - If you can't respect 'Top  Drawer' Jews like Pipes, Morris Dees (f**ked his stepdaughter), Woody Allen (f**ked his stepson), I find you an anti-semite.

Look at these wonderful Jews... http://judicial-inc.biz/freidman_pedophiles_from_hell.htm
« Last Edit: May 12, 2006, 04:15:05 PM by The_Skunk »

Offline RACHEL1958

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Re: The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2006, 10:21:58 AM »

Could we get you to slit your wrists instead!!!
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Offline RACHEL1958

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Re: The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2006, 10:35:27 AM »
You and I may not agree on alot of the issues on this forum but why are you being censored or did you change your mind and delete reply to me?

Today at 01:56:00 PM From Effendi  <<<Reply Missing!!!
!REPLY!  by
 

Yesterday at 07:02:18 PM From Effendi  <<Reply Missing!!!
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Offline GreyLmist

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Re: The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2006, 10:54:46 AM »
Quote
Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara

Robert S. McNamara -- middle name: Strange.

Offline Effendi

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Re: The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2006, 11:03:41 AM »
You and I may not agree on alot of the issues on this forum but why are you being censored or did you change your mind and delete reply to me?

I am NOT being censored on this forum.  Those were both two self censor situations.  On one, I didn't like the way the pictures and/or text appeared so I deleted the post and started over.  On the other one After reading the post I made I came to the conclusion that my post did not benefit the members of this board and decided to exercises respect for them by deleting it.
In this media blitz we call cyberspace, clever poseurs on all levels claim that it’s not Jews, it’s Zionists; it’s not Jews, it’s Neocons; it’s not Jews, it’s Communists; it’s not Jews, it’s the Illuminati. All these labels are synonyms for Judaism, which is not really a religion, but a crime scheme

Offline RACHEL1958

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Re: The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2006, 05:27:37 AM »
I am NOT being censored on this forum.  Those were both two self censor situations.  On one, I didn't like the way the pictures and/or text appeared so I deleted the post and started over.  On the other one After reading the post I made I came to the conclusion that my post did not benefit the members of this board and decided to exercises respect for them by deleting it.

I don't see where it's any one else's business what all it is you have to say to me but you manage to bring others into it. Why is it you manage to talk to others about me but can't say it to my face is beyond me. What are you afraid of?
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Offline Germanic American Fox

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2011, 01:54:40 PM »
I think this sounds to much like the Rachel Corrie cover-up... Note bright red cloth not seen during the middle of the day!

Let us just look at Jay Cristol and Israel, they lied about the USS Liberty in photos and quotations of the service men aboard. The Service Men have no reason to lie they get no benefit and would probably be better off if they didn't pursue it. Israel if what they accuse them of is true has every reason to lie!



Note bright orange  shirt and clear skies! The IDF admitted that there was no tunnel under the house!
Yah like I believe a guy in a slow moving vehicle ran over some in a situation like that by accident!
Besides the IDF admits it was demolishing homes in the area to build a barrier. Everything about what they were doing was illegal even if they did not kill her on purpose!

If the USS Liberty survivors had color cameras during the attack this would not be right happening now Miss RACHEL1958!
If the Jews are all innocent and saintly then that would be as big an anomaly among humans as if they were all plotting and scheming towards world domination!

An “anti-semite” in actual usage, is less often a man who hates Jews then a man certain Jews hate.  Joseph Sobran

Offline gelignite

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2011, 04:17:23 PM »
If the USS Liberty survivors had color cameras during the attack this would not be right happening now Miss RACHEL1958!

And why is that?
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

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Offline Germanic American Fox

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2011, 04:42:57 AM »
And why is that?
They would have been able to better document the visibility and the fact they had a brightly colored American flag above their ship! That way it would have ended up being called a controversy (Something that they we can say without a doubt in mind they did but they deny) rather then a conspiracy (something they probably did but have enough counter evidence enough to put a fight for a while!)   


Israel claims the USS Liberty was mistaken for the out-of-service Egyptian horse carrier El Quseir - can you spot the difference?


El Quseir


USS Liberty
They don't even look the same
Quote
According to a 1981 NSA report on the incident, the El Quseir "was approximately one-quarter of the Liberty's tonnage, about one-half its length, and offered a radically different silhouette."
The vessel they claim to have mistaken the USS Liberty for was no longer being used!
 
It would be like if the guys who attacked the flotilla claimed they thought it was a U-boat! Note if the visibility why would they be firing on anyone in waters were they knew Russia and American spy ships. If it was a mistake then imagine if it had been a Russia vessel! Israel would not do something that stupid... You have imagine that every one in the Israeli navy involved had serious retardation it is require such stupidity to accomplish such a f%$# up that no sane person could imagine it!
If the Jews are all innocent and saintly then that would be as big an anomaly among humans as if they were all plotting and scheming towards world domination!

An “anti-semite” in actual usage, is less often a man who hates Jews then a man certain Jews hate.  Joseph Sobran

Offline FrankDialogue

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2011, 06:44:37 AM »
Speaking about the original post, Jay Cristol was a Jewish apologist for the sinking of the Liberty and murder of the crew.

His book is contradicted by the accounts of the survivors.

Rather than an 'accident', the Israelis used the incident as an 'opportunity' to demonstrate their power...Their were Jewish moles in the Navy who assisted in blocking communications with the ship and leading it into harm's way.

Daniel Pipes, who reviewed the book, is a neo-con apologist for every act of treachery by Israel.

Even Israelis pilots have stated that they told their commanders that the ship was an American vessel, but were ordered to take it out.

Offline Germanic American Fox

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2011, 08:23:16 AM »
Speaking about the original post, Jay Cristol was a Jewish apologist for the sinking of the Liberty and murder of the crew.

His book is contradicted by the accounts of the survivors.

Rather than an 'accident', the Israelis used the incident as an 'opportunity' to demonstrate their power...Their were Jewish moles in the Navy who assisted in blocking communications with the ship and leading it into harm's way.

Daniel Pipes, who reviewed the book, is a neo-con apologist for every act of treachery by Israel.

Even Israelis pilots have stated that they told their commanders that the ship was an American vessel, but were ordered to take it out.
And as I demonstrated to Gilg the story is basically not believable at any angle you look at it from!
The motivation was Israel was trying to stop the USS Liberty crew from picking up signals from the kill orders they were giving to execute Egyptian POWs... It is well documented this was happening near by! There was still a chance an anti-Israel president could take office and they did not want that info in the US archives for blackmail! Nixon later took power so that fear of an anti-Israel president was confirmed...
If the Jews are all innocent and saintly then that would be as big an anomaly among humans as if they were all plotting and scheming towards world domination!

An “anti-semite” in actual usage, is less often a man who hates Jews then a man certain Jews hate.  Joseph Sobran

Offline gelignite

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2011, 04:01:25 PM »
Speaking about the original post, Jay Cristol was a Jewish apologist for the sinking of the Liberty and murder of the crew.

In fact, Cristol sharply criticized the IDF for their recklessness which led to the incident.

He stops short of saying the attack was intentional.

Quote
His book is contradicted by the accounts of the survivors.

In fact, his book is largely based on the sworn testimony of the survivors.

Quote
Their were Jewish moles in the Navy who assisted in blocking communications with the ship and leading it into harm's way.

Cite, please.

Quote
Even Israelis pilots have stated that they told their commanders that the ship was an American vessel, but were ordered to take it out.

In fact, UHF transcripts of communications between the attacking pilots and their controllers indicate the opposite - that the pilots did not know the ship was American and were ordered to break off ("...leave her!") when they began reading English characters off the hull.


http://www.thelibertyincident.com
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

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Offline gelignite

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2011, 04:08:10 PM »
The motivation was Israel was trying to stop the USS Liberty crew from picking up signals from the kill orders they were giving to execute Egyptian POWs...

What "kill orders"? No other signal intelligence platform within line-of-sight has ever reported picking up such signals in the clear.

Quote
It is well documented this was happening near by!

Whether this is true or not, it's doubtful such orders would have been broadcast in the clear, and the Liberty was in no position to intercept in any event.

Quote
There was still a chance an anti-Israel president could take office and they did not want that info in the US archives for blackmail! Nixon later took power so that fear of an anti-Israel president was confirmed...

Now you're simply talking out of your ass.
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

-WindRiverShoshoni (RIP)

Offline gelignite

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2011, 04:14:16 PM »
That way it would have ended up being called a controversy...

It was and still is called a "controversy".

Quote
Israel claims the USS Liberty was mistaken for the out-of-service Egyptian horse carrier El Quseir - can you spot the difference?

Spray paint each photo with black (to simulate the dense smoke present at the time) and see if you can spot the difference.

Quote
The vessel they claim to have mistaken the USS Liberty for was no longer being used!

A fact not known to the particular boat commander who made the mistake.
 
Quote
...why would they be firing on anyone in waters were they knew Russia and American spy ships.

If they believed that the ship in question had just lit up troop positions inland, then it might have influenced their decision to pursue and attack.
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

-WindRiverShoshoni (RIP)

Offline WaltDisney

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2011, 04:19:44 PM »
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline A-Train

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- The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Spy Ship
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2011, 04:54:15 PM »
My favorite part of the story: when the Jews methodically machine gunned a rubber life raft after it was lowered into the sea so the Gentile sailors would die when the ship inevitably sank. 

Then again, now that I think about it, perhaps they had no idea it was a life boat they were destroying...