Author Topic: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys  (Read 28689 times)

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Offline GreyLmist

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #180 on: May 21, 2006, 11:19:43 AM »

Painter's testimony doesn't say what you are trying to extrapolate from it. Did you even read the statements that were posted?

Offline gelignite

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #181 on: May 21, 2006, 11:30:54 AM »
http://usslibertyinquiry.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590

Evan Tov AKA Tovni (not Toni) who said he had been arrested on some kind of wire fraud charge and expected to be sentenced to five years in federal prison. He told me he was the lead pilot who attacked the Liberty. He recognized the ship as American on the first pass and notified his HQ who told him to ignore the flag and continue the attack. He refused and returned to base where he was arrested and given a BCD. His wingmate(s) continued the attack.

He said he had recording of his conversation with Abba Eban that would prove his claim and offered to provide them to a Member of Congress who would take his story AND put him under the witness protection program.

I spent several days on the telephone and no Member of staffer was willing to talk to him.

Funny how you left the following line out of your cut and paste (with emphasis added):

There is the obvious suspicion that he invented the whole story to try to stay out of jail. The man's claim has never been verified, documented or refuted.

...]

So here we have a guy facing time in the federal pen who was willing to trade his unverified/undocumented story for a shot at a comfortable life in the 'burbs.

He later recants. Meaning, of course, that he apparently lied at some point.

I guess the question that remains is when.

In terms of his credibility, my question is where.
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Offline gelignite

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #182 on: May 21, 2006, 11:35:39 AM »
Painter's testimony doesn't say what you are trying to extrapolate from it.

It indicates that, at the time the MTBs approached, the number of damaged rafts in the water around the ship was more than three. Any of them could have been the one that the Israelis hauled on board.
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

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Offline gelignite

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #183 on: May 21, 2006, 12:03:08 PM »
I know Pete McCloskey, and he doesn't need to make stuff up.

No one is saying that McCloskey necessarily did.

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It's reasonable that Tavni told him that, and then, knowing he'd be deported to Israel after serving his prison term, told Pennick a different story.

It's also reasonable that, as indicated by what Ennes reported to be the speculation at the time, Tavni was simply attempting to cut some kind of a deal which would guarantee him a reduced sentence.

So he read Ennes' book and got an idea in his head.

Quote
Have you seen Spielberg's latest propaganda flick, Munich?  The team leader in that movie was "not Mossad" ~ according to the "official records."  "By way of deception shalt thou do war' certainly reaches "official records" as it does everything else, like your apologetics.

And we know that Tavni was a Mossad agent because...?

Here's what we do know:

Tavni was an Israeli citizen.

He was convicted of a crime in the U.S.

Tavni was, according to Ennes, willing to trade his story for a stint in the witness protection program.

He later recanted his story (or that he ever even told such a story) to Pennink.

Israel denied that Tavni was ever in the IDF.

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So did Tavni lie to Pete McCloskey to set him up for Cristol's book?

Well, that's just it, isn't it? We know that Tavni lied at some point. The question is when and to whom and for what purpose.

We can speculate along these lines all day long, but, at the end of the day, there remains what is most-likely, given what we do know.
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

-WindRiverShoshoni (RIP)

Offline gelignite

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #184 on: May 21, 2006, 12:12:59 PM »
Is Pennink a citizen of Israel?

Are you seriously asking if the guy who produced the Thames TV doc about the USS Liberty is an Israeli?
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

-WindRiverShoshoni (RIP)

Offline GreyLmist

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #185 on: May 22, 2006, 04:09:50 AM »
All that typing and still no answer from you.


Is Pennink a citizen of Israel?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I don't know


Pick a letter.

Offline GreyLmist

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #186 on: May 22, 2006, 04:26:13 AM »
What do you have but an alleged recanting? It's no wonder the IDF can't find Amnon Tavni in their records if the guy was going by the name Evan Tov/Tovni at the time.

Offline GreyLmist

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #187 on: May 22, 2006, 04:38:28 AM »
Either you still haven't really read the statements, don't understand what you've read, or are being deliberately obtuse. Which is it? How about you start by explaining why you think anything but burning liferafts were "knocked" as damaged and why you think they would have been floating in liferaft form. Then explain why you think Israel would shoot at "obviously" damaged junk? Cuz they were bored and ammo was cheaper then?

Offline GreyLmist

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #188 on: May 23, 2006, 07:16:45 AM »
http://www.geocities.com/~pointmen/PMIMRonK.htm

Point Man International Ministries
>
there are some who believe that on June 7, 1967 with the taking back of the old city of Jerusalem by the Jews, signaled the beginning of the last generation, which would be forty years. I leave you to draw your own conclusions as to that belief. >> Ron Kukal, USS Liberty Survivor

Offline gelignite

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #189 on: May 24, 2006, 01:17:34 PM »
All that typing and still no answer from you.


Is Pennink a citizen of Israel?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I don't know


Pick a letter.

C. I don't know, and
D. I seriously doubt it.
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

-WindRiverShoshoni (RIP)

Offline gelignite

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #190 on: May 24, 2006, 01:28:14 PM »
What do you have but an alleged recanting? It's no wonder the IDF can't find Amnon Tavni in their records if the guy was going by the name Evan Tov/Tovni at the time.

Pennink worked on the Thames doc about the Liberty incident. That's the one which paints the attack in a "deliberate" color.

So I think it's safe to say that if he could have, Pennink would have used the account that Tavni was alleged to have given.

He couldn't, so he didn't.

Unless, of course, you're going to suggest that Pennink is actually a member of the Mossad.
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

-WindRiverShoshoni (RIP)

Offline GreyLmist

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #191 on: June 08, 2006, 10:19:00 AM »
Quote
C. I don't know

D wasn't an option. It's just redundant to C and baseless speculation.

Offline GreyLmist

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Re: The Liberty, The Lobby & A Long List Of Lackeys
« Reply #192 on: June 08, 2006, 10:24:59 AM »
Quote
Me: Painter's testimony doesn't say what you are trying to extrapolate from it.

You: It indicates that, at the time the MTBs approached, the number of damaged rafts in the water around the ship was more than three.

No, it doesn't. Where do you see anything there about floating damaged rafts?