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Offline NOLAJBS

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The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« on: May 01, 2006, 08:37:41 PM »
Title: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret  [ Post 294550629 ]
By:  Bob_Wallace
Date: 04/08/06 05:38 PM

NEW YORK `“ On the fourth day of the 1967 Arab Israeli War, the intelligence ship 'USS Liberty' was steaming slowly in international waters, 14 miles off the Sinai Peninsula. Israeli armored forces were racing deep into Sinai in hot pursuit of the retreating Egyptian army.

'Liberty,' a World War II freighter, had been converted into an intelligence vessel by the top-secret US National Security Agency, and packed with the latest signals and electronic interception equipment. The ship bristled with antennas and electronic 'ears' including TRSSCOMM, a system that delivered real-time intercepts to Washington by bouncing a stream of microwaves off the moon.

'Liberty' had been rushed to Sinai to monitor communications of the belligerents in the Third Arab Israeli War: Israel and her foes, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan.

At 0800 hrs, 8 June, 1967, eight Israeli recon flights flew over 'Liberty,' which was flying a large American flag. At 1400 hrs, waves of low-flying Israeli Mystere and Mirage-III fighter-bombers repeatedly attacked the American vessel with rockets, napalm, and cannon. The air attacks lasted 20 minutes, concentrating on the ship's electronic antennas and dishes. The 'Liberty' was left afire, listing sharply. Eight of her crew lay dead, a hundred seriously wounded, including the captain, Commander William McGonagle.

At 1424 hrs, three Israeli torpedo boats attacked, raking the burning 'Liberty' with 20mm and 40mm shells. At 1431hrs an Israeli torpedo hit the 'Liberty' midship, precisely where the signals intelligence systems were located. Twenty-five more Americans died.

Israeli gunboats circled the wounded 'Liberty,' firing at crewmen trying to fight the fires. At 1515, the crew were ordered to abandon ship. The Israeli warships closed and poured machine gun fire into the crowded life rafts, sinking two. As American sailors were being massacred in cold blood, a rescue mission by US Sixth Fleet carrier aircraft was mysteriously aborted on orders from the White House.

An hour after the attack, Israeli warships and planes returned. Commander McGonagle gave the order. 'prepare to repel borders.' But the Israelis, probably fearful of intervention by the US Sixth Fleet, departed. 'Liberty' was left shattered but still defiant, her flag flying.

The Israeli attacks killed 34 US seamen and wounded 171 out of a crew of 297, the worst loss of American naval personnel from hostile action since World War II.

Less than an hour after the attack, Israel told Washington its forces had committed a 'tragic error.' Later, Israel claimed it had mistaken 'Liberty' for an ancient Egyptian horse transport. US Secretary of State, Dean Rusk, and Joint Chiefs of Staff head, Admiral Thomas Moorer, insisted the Israeli attack was deliberate and designed to sink 'Liberty.' So did three CIA reports; one asserted Israel's Defense Minister, Gen. Moshe Dayan, had personally ordered the attack.

In contrast to American outrage over North Korea's assault on the intelligence ship 'Pueblo,' Iraq's mistaken missile strike on the USS 'Stark,' last fall's bombing of the USS 'Cole' in Aden, and the recent US-China air incident, the savaging of 'Liberty' was quickly hushed up by President Lyndon Johnson and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara.

The White House and Congress immediately accepted Israel's explanation and let the matter drop. Israel later paid a token reparation of US $6 million. There were reports two Israeli pilots who had refused to attack 'Liberty' were jailed for 18 years.

Surviving 'Liberty' crew members would not be silenced. They kept demanding an open inquiry and tried to tell their story of deliberate attack to the media. Israel's government worked behind the scenes to thwart these efforts, going so far as having American pro-Israel groups accuse 'Liberty's' survivors of being 'anti-Semites' and 'Israel-haters.' Major TV networks cancelled interviews with the crew. A book about the 'Liberty' by crewman James Ennes' was dropped from distribution. The Israel lobby branded him 'an Arab propagandist.'

The attack on 'Liberty' was fading into obscurity until last week, when intelligence expert James Bamford came out with Body of Secrets, his latest book about the National Security Agency. In a stunning revelation, Bamford writes that unknown to Israel, a US Navy EC-121 intelligence aircraft was flying high overhead the 'Liberty,' electronically recorded the attack. The US aircraft crew provides evidence that the Israeli pilots knew full well that they were attacking a US Navy ship flying the American flag.

Why did Israel try to sink a naval vessel of its benefactor and ally? Most likely because 'Liberty's' intercepts flatly contradicted Israel's claim, made at the war's beginning on 5 June, that Egypt had attacked Israel, and that Israel's massive air assault on three Arab nations was in retaliation. In fact, Israel began the war by a devastating, Pearl-Harbor style surprise attack that caught the Arabs in bed and destroyed their entire air forces.

Israel was also preparing to attack Syria to seize its strategic Golan Heights. Washington warned Israel not to invade Syria, which had remained inactive while Israel fought Egypt. Bamford says Israel's offensive against Syria was abruptly postponed when 'Liberty' appeared off Sinai, then launched once it was knocked out of action. Israel's claim that Syria had attacked it could have been disproved by 'Liberty.'

Most significant, 'Liberty's' intercepts may have shown that Israel seized upon sharply rising Arab-Israeli tensions in May-June 1967 to launch a long-planned war to invade and annex the West Bank, Jerusalem, Golan and Sinai.

Far more shocking was Washington's response. Writes Bamford: 'Despite the overwhelming evidence that Israel attacked the ship and killed American servicemen deliberately, the Johnson Administration and Congress covered up the entire incident.' Why?

Domestic politics. Johnson, a man never noted for high moral values, preferred to cover up the attack rather than anger a key constituency and major financial backer of the Democratic Party. Congress was even less eager to touch this 'third rail' issue.

Commander McGonagle was quietly awarded the Medal of Honor for his and his men's heroism `“ not in the White House, as is usual, but in an obscure ceremony at the Washington Navy Yard. Crew member's graves were inscribed, 'died in the Eastern Mediterranean..' as if they had be killed by disease, rather than hostile action.

A member of President Johnson's staff believed there was a more complex reason for the cover-up: Johnson offered Jewish liberals unconditional backing of Israel, and a cover-up of the 'Liberty' attack, in exchange for the liberal toning down their strident criticism of his policies in the then raging Vietnam War.

Israel, which claims it fought a war of self defense in 1967 and had no prior territorial ambitions, will be much displeased by Bamford's revelations. Those who believe Israel illegally occupies the West Bank and Golan will be emboldened.

Much more important, the US government's long, disgraceful cover-up of the premeditated attack on 'Liberty' has now burst into the open and demands full-scale investigation. After 34 years, the voices of 'Liberty's' dead and wounded seamen must finally be heard.
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Offline WindRiverShoshoni

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2006, 01:47:59 PM »
On the fourth day of the 1967 Arab Israeli War, the intelligence ship 'USS Liberty' was steaming slowly in international waters, 14 miles off the Sinai Peninsula. Israeli armored forces were racing deep into Sinai in hot pursuit of the retreating Egyptian army.

The Israelis were annihilating the retreating army with the combat air support of the 38th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron of the 26th Tactical Reconnaissance Wing, US Air Force, out of Ramstein, West Germany via Moron, Spain, and a complete WS 430a photoreconnaissance system from the 17th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron of the 66th Tactical Reconnaissance Wing at Upper Heyford, outside Oxford in England, who met them at Moron, an air base originally constructed for B-52s, with 10,000-foot runways.

"Those who would be going on the mission itself were issued civilian passports and manuals on lab operations in plastic binders.  The manuals had been printed by Aero-Tec Corporation in Dallas-Fort Worth.  This was to be their cover.  They would be U.S. civilian contract employees hired by the Israeli government, if anything went wrong."

Their state-of-the-art RF-4C's "were painted over with a white Star of David on a blue background on the rear fuselage.  New tail numbers were painted on, corresponding to actual inventory numbers in the Israeli Air Force."

See Steven Green, Taking Sides, Amana Books 1988, ISBN 0-915597-54-3, pp.204-211 (followed by pp.212-242 about the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty).

The RF-4C's arrived "at a small, remote, abandoned airfield in the Negev, southeast of the big IAF air base at Beersheba, and southwest of Dimona ... at about dark on June 4. ... Early the next morning, June 5, ... the IAF launched the largest coordinted air attack ever undertaken in the Middle East.  The war was on." (p.206)

On "June 8 or 9, the operation's mission changed somewhat.  In the early hours of the war, the Israeli Air Force concentrated on destroying as many Arab planes and airfields as possible, leaving the Arab armies to fight planes with tanks in the open desert.  ... Once the Arab air forces had been demolished on the ground, however, the Arabs were forced to move their troops and equipment at nighttime, to avoid as much as possible the attacks from Israeli planes, which they could no longer oppose in the air.  Thus, the primary mission of the Negev reconnaissance operation switched to night sorties ferreting out Arab movements, to permit devastatingly accurate Israeli air attacks early the following morning.  The night reconnaissance on June 8 and 9 also enabled IDF commanders to accurately assess the Jordanian and Egyptian strength that remained and thus facilitated decisions about which units could be sent north to undertake the attack upon Syria, and exactly when these units could be safely moved."  (p.208)

These were attacks on retreating troops.

"Once the battle had been joined in Syria, the mission changed again to close-in tactical reconnaissance of Syrian positions, in and just north of the Golan Heights.  And then on June 12 it was over.  The C-130's swooped in and landed, the cubes were packed up and loaded, and the men flew back to Moron for debriefing."  (pp.208-9)

Thus all this ...

Why did Israel try to sink a naval vessel of its benefactor and ally? Most likely because 'Liberty's' intercepts flatly contradicted Israel's claim, made at the war's beginning on 5 June, that Egypt had attacked Israel, and that Israel's massive air assault on three Arab nations was in retaliation. In fact, Israel began the war by a devastating, Pearl-Harbor style surprise attack that caught the Arabs in bed and destroyed their entire air forces.

Israel was also preparing to attack Syria to seize its strategic Golan Heights. Washington warned Israel not to invade Syria, which had remained inactive while Israel fought Egypt. Bamford says Israel's offensive against Syria was abruptly postponed when 'Liberty' appeared off Sinai, then launched once it was knocked out of action. Israel's claim that Syria had attacked it could have been disproved by 'Liberty.'

Most significant, 'Liberty's' intercepts may have shown that Israel seized upon sharply rising Arab-Israeli tensions in May-June 1967 to launch a long-planned war to invade and annex the West Bank, Jerusalem, Golan and Sinai.


Is complete nonsense ~ Johnson was ignorant of nothing that the USS Liberty might have overheard, knowing it all in advance, and the Israelis obviously knew that.

A member of President Johnson's staff believed there was a more complex reason for the cover-up: Johnson offered Jewish liberals unconditional backing of Israel, and a cover-up of the 'Liberty' attack, in exchange for the liberal toning down their strident criticism of his policies in the then raging Vietnam War.

This also is complete nonsense.  The entire anti-war movement was run by the front organizations of the Socialist Workers' Party, which was set up by Leon Trotsky when he was shuttling between New York and Mexico City before Stalin had him assassinated.  The SWP's Central Committee was made up mostly of FBI agents who had already established their credentials as "Leninists" in the Communist Party of the USA ("CPUSA" which became the Stalinist party after Lenin's death), and continues under the control of the COINTELPRO branch of the FBI to this day.  Anti-war demonstrations in Johnson's time were fired up and toned down as needed to bleed off public energy against the war into harmless, ineffective public demonstrations that never had any impact at all on Johnson's policies or those of his successors.  I was there, I was organizing demonstrations and participating in the planning, suckered in under a false flag by COINTELPRO, I remember.

Much more important, the US government's long, disgraceful cover-up of the premeditated attack on 'Liberty' has now burst into the open and demands full-scale investigation. After 34 years, the voices of 'Liberty's' dead and wounded seamen must finally be heard.

That's not happening either.  It is well-established, not least by the testimony of an Israeli pilot who was court-martialled for refusing to attack an American vessel, that the attack on the Liberty was knowing and deliberate and ordered at the highest level of the Israeli government.  But this knowledge is percolating slowly through the American public awareness, and will not force a Congressional investigation ~ which would, of course, become a whitewash ~ just as public demonstrations did not end the war in Vietnam and won't end the war in Iraq and Afghanistan or anything else.

When the realities of Israel's low-intensity war against all other countries, and specifically against the United States since before the Mayflower sailed, become sufficiently well-known to the American people, then all of it will come out at once ~ from buying Wilson to buying Congressmen to killing JFK to shepherding the 9/11 attackers to the Burning Bush to whatever else  ~ and we'll have a real problem on our hands protecting innocent Jews from the backlash.

But that's not very imminent at all, and Israeli loyalists are running that opposition already.  That's the first use of false flag operations ~ locate, identify, and control the opposition.  It's what COINTELPRO is all about, and the Israelis have 3000 years of experience with it.
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Offline The_Skunk

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2006, 02:49:06 PM »
When the realities of Israel's low-intensity war against all other countries, and specifically against the United States since before the Mayflower sailed, become sufficiently well-known to the American people, then all of it will come out at once ~ from buying Wilson to buying Congressmen to killing JFK to shepherding the 9/11 attackers to the Burning Bush to whatever else  ~ and we'll have a real problem on our hands protecting innocent Jews from the backlash.


From what I have read, jews are breed from childhood to be Sayanims for the greater good. When you burn a nest of rattlesnakes, do you hand pick the innocent ones?

Offline artbishopII

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2006, 02:53:25 PM »
911 IS BY FAR America's Most Shameful Secret

i BEG to differ skunkie.

USSLIBERTY PALES IN NEOCOMPARISON....its history...5 billion 999 million people neva heard of ussliberty.

EVERYONE ON THIS PLANET KNWOS 911.
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Offline RACHEL1958

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2006, 04:13:30 PM »
When the realities of Israel's low-intensity war against all other countries, and specifically against the United States since before the Mayflower sailed, become sufficiently well-known to the American people, then all of it will come out at once ~ from buying Wilson to buying Congressmen to killing JFK to shepherding the 9/11 attackers to the Burning Bush to whatever else  ~ and we'll have a real problem on our hands protecting innocent Jews from the backlash.


From what I have read, jews are breed from childhood to be Sayanims for the greater good. When you burn a nest of rattlesnakes, do you hand pick the innocent ones?

Your the biggest one I've ever seen. You could sell snake oil to a snake oil salesmen.


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Offline WindRiverShoshoni

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2006, 05:34:37 PM »
When you burn a nest of rattlesnakes, do you hand pick the innocent ones?

Absolutely.  Not because of who they are, but because of who we are.

"The best of the goyim should be killed" is a targeting instruction ~ wipe out the potential leaders and keep the rest of the goyim as slaves is the aim.  "The faithful of Israel should be protected" is also a targeting instruction ~ restraining corruption and fostering liberty for all is the aim.  Who better to restrain the corrupt of Israel than those who know them best?

God Alone destroys the innocent with the corrupted, because only He can make it right, balancing their wrongdoing (in staying among the corrupt) in the next life.  "Collateral damage" is another name for murder ~ we do not act except against those who are themselves guilty.

Even Moussaoui is being tried for the specific act he actually did ~ that is, he lied to those who arrested him ~ and not for flying a plane, which he didn't do.  Someone on the jury obviously believes that that specific act does not warrant capital punishment.  So even the goyim understand this basic tenet of justice that "no bearer of burdens bears the burden of another."

Jews all over the world know very well that they can obtain sanctuary among muslims.  That's why the conquest of Muslim Spain produced a large Sephardic community in every muslim country near Spain, and why there has always been a substantial Jewish community in Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Turkey, and in other places ~ that the Mossad was not able to completely eliminate with their false flag terror bombings in some of those countries.

We protect the innocent because of who we are, not because of who they are.
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Offline Proemio

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2006, 06:16:10 PM »
We protect the innocent because of who we are, not because of who they are.

My simple MO (just different words). If we become a beastly mob in the process, what would be the point?
To find out, scares me more then they ever will - we shall see...

But, on a practical level, Mr. Skunk has a valid point.
Using an Iraq resistance analogy. You see a swarm of 'willing' coming for you. You just KNOW that some of them are innocent kids from Kansas (or wherever) swept up in lies beyond their reach and the dynamics of battle, i.e. as innocent as any. What is the Iraqi to do? Spare him - whom he can't identify - by laying down his weapon or even his life?

It seems, the option of being magnanimous is only available when having the upper hand (identifyable, individual exceptions not withstanding). Tricky moral/existential questions to come...

Offline WindRiverShoshoni

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2006, 09:41:54 PM »
My simple MO (just different words).  If we become a beastly mob in the process, what would be the point?

If we become bestial ~ individually or collectively ~ we lose our humanity and any claim to live in a free society possessed of liberty with a moral foundation.

To find out, scares me more then they ever will - we shall see ...

Reports from Iraq do not inspire optimism.

But, on a practical level, Mr. Skunk has a valid point.

Using an Iraq resistance analogy. You see a swarm of 'willing' coming for you. You just KNOW that some of them are innocent kids from Kansas (or wherever) swept up in lies beyond their reach and the dynamics of battle, i.e. as innocent as any. What is the Iraqi to do? Spare him - whom he can't identify - by laying down his weapon or even his life?


Someone who does not flatly refuse to travel halfway around the world to use weapons against strangers who attacked nobody is no longer innocent ~ he is standing among murderers irrespective of his other intentions (i.e., other than his intent to kill).  When the innocent kid from Kansas throws down his weapon he is not to be killed.  Until then, he's just another among the murderers.

Of course, Abel elected to not defend against Cain's murderous attack.  That was Abel's choice.

It seems, the option of being magnanimous is only available when having the upper hand (identifiable, individual exceptions not withstanding).  Tricky moral/existential questions to come ...

Defense of the innocent is not magnanimity.  It's a moral imperative for the muslims, part of the foundation of a free society possessed of liberty.  You may note that I condemn Moussaoui to be crucified, with an alternate hand and foot severed, which probably won't happen but would be the epitome of magnanimity extended to him ~ some think it too good for him, but it is the moral law that he claims as his own.

No one coerced him into travelling halfway around the world to murder strangers who attacked nobody.

Sulayman ~ John Walker Lindh the "American Taliban" ~ refused to go where he might be deployed against Americans.  He was willing to defend the people of Afghanistan, who supported the Taliban, from the Northern Alliance of opium barons and bandit warlords.  When Americans entered the picture, he immediately laid down his arms.  It's always a choice made by the individual.

Who is the kid from Kansas "defending" in Iraq by murdering innocents?  Who did Moussaoui come to America to "defend" by murdering innocents?  How are they different from each other?  It was the choice of each individual.

Muslims "win" by protecting the faithful of Israel.  No one "wins" by defeating any of the corrupt of any community ~ it's an unavoidable loss that could be greater were it not done.  "Opposition" is the weakest basis of community.
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Offline arden

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2006, 12:05:41 AM »


Quote
Muslims "win" by protecting the faithful of Israel.

What about Israel?  Should it be?

Sanhedrin: It is the Jewish law and all the nations have to obey this law.

Offline WindRiverShoshoni

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2006, 12:19:22 AM »
Muslims "win" by protecting the faithful of Israel.

What about Israel?  Should it be?


The Israel constituted by the Torah existed from the time of Moses until the time of Solomon, and in Ethiopia from the time of Solomon's son Menelik until the time of Ras Tafari Makonnen who died in 1975.  So the question is hypothetical, since there is no such Israel today, while there remain some who are faithful to the Torah and the Israel it constitutes.
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Offline arden

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2006, 01:13:55 AM »


The Israel constituted by the Torah existed from the time of Moses until the time of Solomon, and in Ethiopia from the time of Solomon's son Menelik until the time of Ras Tafari Makonnen who died in 1975.

But Jews don't regard Ethiopia as "Israel" or Haile Selassie a fellow Jew.

So the question is hypothetical, since there is no such Israel today, while there remain some who are faithful to the Torah and the Israel it constitutes.

Dollars of contrived value for a hypothetical country.
Makes sense.

 
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Offline Skywalker

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2006, 02:30:34 AM »
Quote
The Israel constituted by the Torah existed from the time of Moses until the time of Solomon, and in Ethiopia from the time of Solomon's son Menelik until the time of Ras Tafari Makonnen who died in 1975.  So the question is hypothetical, since there is no such Israel today, while there remain some who are faithful to the Torah and the Israel it constitutes.

That is why JAH calls them counterfeit-Jews. And the so-called Jewish State of Israel: counterfeit-Israel.

"An" Israel still exists today, albeit in few numbers, and without a nation of their own. They are those whom you mention as remaining faithful to the Torah. Or better said, those who are constantly learning how to be.

The difference between the old true Israel and the new true Israel being; that the new true Israel has Isa's Example of how to obey The Law, in Grace. And they also hold the Koran in very high regard, believing that the Message indeed came from Allah, through Gabriel, through Mohammed (pbuh). And that throughout the Koran, the permanent theme is reminding believers to return to The Law.

As an aside, the word "Israelite" means "championer of God('s Will)". Similar to "Islam", which, and correct me if I'm wrong please, means "voluntary surrender to God's Will".

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Offline The_Skunk

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2006, 05:23:58 AM »
911 IS BY FAR America's Most Shameful Secret

i BEG to differ skunkie.

USSLIBERTY PALES IN NEOCOMPARISON....its history...5 billion 999 million people neva heard of ussliberty.

EVERYONE ON THIS PLANET KNWOS 911.


You are right, but where does one start with Jewish crimes? The cultural destruction of America, the Fiat money fiasco, 1982 S&L crisis, the coming stock market swindle, destruction of our morals, etc etc.

One could argue till infinity about the Jews biggest crimes, look at the American Civil War, the list is endless.

Offline WindRiverShoshoni

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2006, 07:17:28 AM »
The Israel constituted by the Torah existed from the time of Moses until the time of Solomon, and in Ethiopia from the time of Solomon's son Menelik until the time of Ras Tafari Makonnen who died in 1975.

But Jews don't regard Ethiopia as "Israel" or Haile Selassie a fellow Jew.


Some of the Children of Israel didn't regard Jesus as a Jew, either, but he said clearly that he had been sent to those who had left Israel ("the lost sheep" who "went astray from Israel").  God's Word determines those things, not their exclusivist ambitions and self-aggrandizing opinions.  There are many Jews who were never part of Temple Israel, and keep to the Torah without the Talmud contrived during the Babylonian Captivity.  God established Israel ~ the Grand Master of Babylon established Temple Israel.

What Temple Israel became was denounced by all of the prophets after Solomon, and Jesus declared them deposed, disfranchised, and "not of Abraham" in no uncertain terms.  "Modern" Israel is a contrivance indistinguishable from any other goy ("nation") except by its identification of "Jewish" nationality (as distinguished, say, from Anglo or Hutu or Aryan supremacism).

So the question is hypothetical, since there is no such Israel today, while there remain some who are faithful to the Torah and the Israel it constitutes.

Dollars of contrived value for a hypothetical country.
Makes sense.


"Modern" Israel has nothing in common with the Israel of the Torah except abandonment of the Law and the prophets.  It's just another nation of outlaws writing their own whims into their program of despoilation of everyone else.  An "image of the beast" as it were, devoid of any moral imperatives ~ like America.

And like the "America" to which we "pledge allegiance" (i.e., the republic for which it stands which is otherwise extinct), the Israel that God created exists only in the hearts of the faithful, and in the imaginations of some others, and virtually nowhere else.
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Offline NOLAJBS

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2006, 07:51:09 AM »
That is why JAH calls them counterfeit-Jews. And the so-called Jewish State of Israel: counterfeit-Israel.
Precisely why there are so many counterfeit-Christians, or Christian Zionists, these days.
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Offline WindRiverShoshoni

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2006, 08:44:12 AM »
"An" Israel still exists today, albeit in few numbers, and without a nation of their own. They are those whom you mention as remaining faithful to the Torah. Or better said, those who are constantly learning how to be.

The difference between the old true Israel and the new true Israel being; that the new true Israel has Isa's Example of how to obey The Law, in Grace. And they also hold the Koran in very high regard, believing that the Message indeed came from Allah, through Gabriel, through Mohammed (pbuh). And that throughout the Koran, the permanent theme is reminding believers to return to The Law.


"The half that's never been told."  But apparently not the Good News.  Fortunately, that's in the Law and the prophets as well, just not seen yet.

As an aside, the word "Israelite" means "championer of God('s Will)". Similar to "Islam", which, and correct me if I'm wrong please, means "voluntary surrender to God's Will".

Actually it means "restoration" and includes the sense of "completion."  God closed His Mind to Adam; He opens to Japheth.  The Rastas I've met have been very close.  HIM seen, I.
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Offline arden

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2006, 09:05:51 AM »

According to James Bamford in a June 2001 article about the NSA:

"What was happening just on the shore, only about 12 or 13 miles away from the Liberty, was that the Israelis were committing enormous numbers of war crimes. They were killing Egyptian soldiers `“ some with their hands tied behind their backs, and some after making them dig their own graves. There were several hundred of them `“ there may have been a thousand all together in the Sinai."

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23342
Sanhedrin: It is the Jewish law and all the nations have to obey this law.

Offline Skywalker

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2006, 09:18:27 AM »
Quote
Actually it means "restoration" and includes the sense of "completion."

I'm grateful for the correction. I think that I mistook a basic description * that I had heard, summing up what the discipline of "Islam" entails, for being the actual meaning of the word.

* One which makes perfect sense to me.
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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2006, 09:47:52 AM »
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Precisely why there are so many counterfeit-Christians, or Christian Zionists, these days.

Excellent point. Why?

People may see counterfeit-Jews claiming to be "Jews" merely because of belonging to a collective. That leads to people learning from their bad example, and calling themselves Christians simply because they join a so-called "Christian" collective. You see it all the time nowadays, "I was BORN Catholic" and such nonsense. It has become a gene thing.

True religion (personal union with God) is then abandoned in favour of mob mentality, which always has Satan's puppet-masters directing it.

That's without going into the DIRECT influence that Babylonian Talmudic counterfeit-Jews have had on countless organised religions throughout the world.

Then again, Satan started them all in the first place. Each time a grain of truth fell from the angels, he built a religion over them to hide the real truth with confusion and silly rituals.
The Plan against the NWO - http://i.am/jah/plan.htm

The Way home or face The Fire - http://i.am/jah/twh.pdf

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Offline dominique

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Re: The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2006, 09:55:47 AM »
... the "America" to which we "pledge allegiance" (i.e., the republic for which it stands which is otherwise extinct) ... exists only in the hearts of the faithful, and in the imaginations of some others, and virtually nowhere else.

So true.

 :'( :'( :'(
"Divert, distort, denigrate, disrupt or destroy any discussion of the corruption of American liberty by the organized lobby of a foreign power."  ~ WindRiverShoshoni