Author Topic: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?  (Read 1523 times)

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Offline MrSpock

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Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« on: March 03, 2006, 04:27:42 AM »
First the Sputnik by the russians, then Mercury, Gemini, Apollo program and in 1969 when the first people landed on the Moon people believed that the sky is no longer the limit. Imagination flew uncontrolled. People were dreaming about landing on other planets, going outside of our solar system, in the 70s they sent out the two Voyagers which flew beyond Pluto and as we speak flying away, somewhere out there. Then came the Space Shuttle and we all proudly looked at the incredible advancement of space research.

Then something "snapped". The russians abandoned their Moon program. From the shuttle missions we didn't hear much, other than carrying sattelites into space, which could have been done in much simpler ways. The rest became weird. Toys in space? High school experiments with ants in space? What? I have a CD which has all the details of the first fifty or so shuttle program, full with absurdities like these. The international space station was (still is) pretty much a high expense duplication of these absurdities. Then Mars probes. Yes, there is a lot of sand there. We knew it. Now we know it even better. The surface of Europe (moon) is ice. We sent there a spaceship to verify that. We knew it, now we know it even better.

What happened to the space program? In the 60s, in less than a decade from decision, people landed on the Moon. At the time we thought, all we have to do is to decide and it will happen.
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Well......not so fast. The problem is distance, technology and propulsion. Mostly the propulsion.
It required a taller than 100 meter rocket (Saturn V) to carry 3 people to the Moon and bring them back in a 4x3 meter little thingy. It takes huge amounts of energy to break out the gravity of planet Earth. And that is not going to change. For example, to carry a small town worth of stuff to the Moon (colony) is totally beyond our means (regardless what the "stuff" is). How about time, distances and weight? We are so proud of the Mars landers. Why? Mars has the gravity nearly as much as Earth. Yes, with decades of hard work we might be able to deliver humans to Mars. To bring them back? Forget it. For that, there must be a Cape Canaveral level of launching facility there. How? How can we carry that there, without being able to come back first? And how can we come back first, if we don't have a launching facility over there? Arab astronauts who don't mind to die there? Forget it. So then, how? I sure don't see it how.
But worse yet, why? We failed so far to find any "martians". It's a horrible barren desert land with no air to breath. What's the point?

And it gets worse than that. After Mars we have the gas giants (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune). Those are not even real planets. Okay, they have some moons. And there? What is there? Life? Very very very very unlikely. Temperatures in the minus hundred degree range. Remains the Pluto. Now it is believed that it isn't even a real planet, but one of the many "big rocks" of the Kuiper belt. Not even mentioning the little detail that it takes about 15 years to get there with our current technology. To come back? How? We can't even come back from Mars yet. Not even close. Beyond Pluto? Well, the next thing is Alpha Centauri (Proxima, really), 4.6 light years away. No, not 4.6 years travel away, 4.6 light years. Which is 4.6 times 9.5 billion kilometer. Is that very far? Well....count a bit. The light from our Sun gets here in 8 minutes. Light to the Moon from Earth gets in 1.2 second. Light to the Alpha Centauri........well.....4.6 years. Once I calculated, with our current technology the trip to there would be roughly 15 thousand years !!!. And that is the NEAREST star (solar system, sun with only POSSIBLE planets).
In other words, we could spend 15 thousand years, go there and find absolutely nothing. The typical, average "other star" millions of light years away (not 4.6).

And here we are. These are the long term prospects of space exploration. And yet, it gets worse than that. Assume, just assume that we will have a gigantic technological breakthrough, an unparalelled invention, which allows us to travel with near the speed of light. Currently it isn't even close. The Space Shuttle can "do" 8-9 km/sec, the speed of the light is 300,000 km/sec.
The Apollo could do 11.x km/sec and so are those space vehicles which went to the Mars. But let's assume that a NSL (near speed of light) spaceship will be invented, built and put in usage. The real space out there would be still average millions of years to humans in THAT NSL vehicle. Okay, we could get to Alpha Centauri back and forth in a decade or two. But the chance to find anything worthwhile there would have the same chance as finding martians on Mars (intelligent beings).

Therefore, even the invention and building of an NSL vehicle would be insufficient to "explore space". So, what do we have realistically? In the long term. Moon? Measly 1.1 light seconds away. Okay, Moon. Still, what for? No air, no nothing. It would make perhaps a good "mine". Mine what? Whatever. The cost, energy to turn Moon into some colony, is way, way, way beyond are technological reach. Forget Mars for the time being, no launching back facility and won't be any until......................

Until mankind invents some totally new propulsion technology. Which somehow neutralizes gravity (yeah, right) and can accelerate to far faster speeds than 11 km/sec range. Until that happens, space research is a joke. Are we in space at all with the Space Shuttle? By official definition, yes. Because there is no air up there. But we are still within the gravity of Earth, the only reason the Space Shuttle doesn't just fall back to Earth, because it goes around it around 8 km/sec, and that gives enough centrifugal force to compensate gravity. Otherwise, there would be not even weightlessness (which by the way recently was changed to "microgravity" for that reason). The Moon is 186,000 miles away, the Space Shuttle is 250-350 miles away. And as we know, the Moon is just a "spit" distance from Earth (1.2 light second). And ISS and all that a couple of hundred miles away from Earth. Space? Okay, if you insist.

And that is why the space program is dying. Because people involved start to find out that the dreams will not be matched for a very long time. Of course, tens of thousands of people dedicated their lives to "space research" and now they are looking for excuses to maintain their jobs. I always have a good laugh when I read from space programs, like going to an asteroid and "find out about the origin of the solar system". First, who cares? Second, just dig down next to your home and you get the same material you get from an asteroid. If you can find out the origin of the solar system from a few speck of rock, you can do it right here on Earth. So, money will be spent for times to come, but realistically, expect absolutely nothing as a result of that.

And that is the sad truth.

Gabor




Offline god

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2006, 07:18:21 AM »
space is dying for the black hole that is social programs
what i say is totally subjective

Offline HappyPant

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2006, 09:49:11 AM »
I think that science and culture go hand in hand.  It's very difficult to preserve the former as you discard the latter.

Offline HappyPant

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006, 09:50:23 AM »
You're not really going to give us that "poor people stole your money" crap are you?  Unless you count what's going on in Iraq as a social program, this country doesn't have any by any modern World standard.

Offline MrSpock

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2006, 03:56:16 PM »
I think that science and culture go hand in hand.  It's very difficult to preserve the former as you discard the latter.

In general I agree.

In specific mankind will be forced to pause with the space program, evaluate what it can do (or can't) in the long run. Without the invention of some radically different propulsion we can forget about exploring other planets, or solar systems.

Gabor

Offline MrSpock

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2006, 03:57:46 PM »
You're not really going to give us that "poor people stole your money" crap are you?  Unless you count what's going on in Iraq as a social program, this country doesn't have any by any modern World standard.

I don't even understand what you're trying to say, as in, how it connects with anything I wrote.
What I wrote is strictly about technology.

Gabor

Offline HappyPant

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2006, 07:48:12 AM »
That reply was for "god", not you.  Read his scrolling text.

Offline Liberty_Burning

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2006, 04:10:23 PM »
The earth is running out of frontiers. Open frontiers are what enabled
human beings to escape government tyranny.
If human beings successfully colonize near-earth space, the
powers-that-be will have lost control.
Human freedom may flourish. The tax-slavery regime may be threatened.
This cannot be allowed to happen.

Offline linus

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2006, 09:36:57 PM »
Because zio-globalists are bent on world wide empire and wars/destruction.

If america was strictly a western nation of great european minds then they would be having manned missions to mars already.

The russians are more advanced. The germans were more advanced until they were bombed to smitherines and lost the war.

Von braun worked for the u.s. and basically gas us the technology.

Israel got their land and zionist world wide empire statists got their money and israel continues to expand it's boundaries.
Russia has to worry about zionist ran usa and cannot really put the major money into space exploration anymore.

All thanks to your tribe.

 


All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline god

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2006, 06:51:57 AM »
are you another forum writer on the dole
what i say is totally subjective

Offline god

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2006, 06:53:20 AM »
eat your heart out.  you cant even dream of being a jew
what i say is totally subjective

Offline god

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2006, 06:55:19 AM »
youre too pessimistic mr. spock.  remember the optimists will inherit everything
what i say is totally subjective

Offline NinpoReloaded

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2006, 07:04:48 AM »
Chutzpah as usual jew.

The reason that the space thing is going out is because young fascist civilistions, like the US government, Russia, and of course, your love the Israel want total control over everthing.

They cannot have it if they have people going up into space seeing their space cameras looking down on us.

You get +1 for your hatred of goy/anti-anti-semitic hatred.

PS You do your kind proud.
The Holocaustâ„¢. International patent# 666. All rights reserved. Any copying or reproduction is punishable by charges of anti-semitism which may result in fines, imprisonment or both. The "Holocaust" is the sole property of the jewish people and any mention of similar incidents pertaining to non-jews may not be made public with out permission from the jews.

Offline god

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2006, 07:19:44 AM »
all 4 of my grandparents were lutheran native swedes & im a descendant of king david
what i say is totally subjective

Offline Fahey

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2006, 07:24:25 AM »
but you are (per your "hawkuu"-handle) a self-described flaming homosexual/liberal

Offline NinpoReloaded

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2006, 07:29:41 AM »
he is jewish as well
The Holocaustâ„¢. International patent# 666. All rights reserved. Any copying or reproduction is punishable by charges of anti-semitism which may result in fines, imprisonment or both. The "Holocaust" is the sole property of the jewish people and any mention of similar incidents pertaining to non-jews may not be made public with out permission from the jews.

Offline Fahey

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2006, 07:34:40 AM »
:D

Offline MrSpock

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2006, 04:49:54 AM »
The earth is running out of frontiers. Open frontiers are what enabled
human beings to escape government tyranny.
If human beings successfully colonize near-earth space, the
powers-that-be will have lost control.
Human freedom may flourish. The tax-slavery regime may be threatened.
This cannot be allowed to happen.

Forget about space related frontiers until mankind finds another, revolutionary source of propulsion. It still takes a 100 meter long rocket to carry the useful roundtrip load of a 4x3 meters capsule to the Moon and back. This have not changed since 1969 and won't either until a totally new invention/discovery. To carry entire colonies, supply them with food, oxygen, water, everything, is so far out of the reach of mankind that it isn't even funny.

Besides, what do you call "near-earth space"? Orbiting space stations? Moon colonies? Mars colonies? Because none is possible with the existing technology. In fact, it isn't even close.
Look the struggle they have with TWO people at the ISS.

Gabor

Offline MrSpock

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Re: Why space research is dying (NASA, etc.)?
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2006, 05:04:55 AM »
Chutzpah as usual jew.

The reason that the space thing is going out is because young fascist civilistions, like the US government, Russia, and of course, your love the Israel want total control over everthing.

They cannot have it if they have people going up into space seeing their space cameras looking down on us.

You get +1 for your hatred of goy/anti-anti-semitic hatred.

PS You do your kind proud.

You mean you don't love me anymore? After we met on the street (see attached picture 1), you even sent me a picture of you (see attached picture 2) and tried to be a friend.
What happened?

Gabor