Author Topic: Obama proclaims 9/11 anniv. Patriot Day, Natl. Day of Service and Remembrance  (Read 31738 times)

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Offline gelignite

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- Obama proclaims 9/11 anniv. Patriot Day, Natl. Day of Service and Remembrance
« Reply #160 on: October 06, 2012, 09:08:39 AM »
Israeli leadership claimed 4000 Israelis had died.

When did anyone claim that 4000 Israelis died? Got a cite for this?

A story was reported that there were about 4000 Israelis who were "believed" to have been in the "area" of the WTC and the Pentagon who, as of the day after the attack, were still out of contact with friends and family (i.e., were declared "missing").

That story got transmogrified into the oft-repeated claim that "4000 Israelis" were mysteriously absent from work at the WTC on the day of the attack, which is, of course, utter nonsense.

In any event, I don't recall ever seeing a claim (by anyone) that 4000 Israelis had died. According to what's been reported, there were five Israeli nationals who lost their lives in the attack.
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Offline Rudi Jan

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- Obama proclaims 9/11 anniv. Patriot Day, Natl. Day of Service and Remembrance
« Reply #161 on: October 06, 2012, 10:31:12 AM »
When did anyone claim that 4000 Israelis died? Got a cite for this?

A story was reported that there were about 4000 Israelis who were "believed" to have been in the "area" of the WTC and the Pentagon who, as of the day after the attack, were still out of contact with friends and family (i.e., were declared "missing").

That story got transmogrified into the oft-repeated claim that "4000 Israelis" were mysteriously absent from work at the WTC on the day of the attack, which is, of course, utter nonsense.

In any event, I don't recall ever seeing a claim (by anyone) that 4000 Israelis had died. According to what's been reported, there were five Israeli nationals who lost their lives in the attack.

source: http://www.publiceye.org/frontpage/911/Missing_Jews.htm

    The Jerusalem Post (08:15 - Wed) Thousands of Israelis missing near WTC, Pentagon Wednesday September 12, 2001 The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack.

    The list is made up of people who have not yet made contact with friends or family, Army Radio reported.

    Telephone connections between Israel and the New York City and Washington, D.C. areas has been sporadic and unreliable since the multiple attacks yesterday.

    Ten thousand people are estimated to have been killed in the New York attacks and another 800 in Washington.

    Several hundred also went down with the hijacked planes.

LW - The JP implied that the missing were dead with what they say in their second to last line.
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Offline gelignite

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« Reply #162 on: October 06, 2012, 11:30:45 AM »
source: http://www.publiceye.org/frontpage/911/Missing_Jews.htm

    The Jerusalem Post (08:15 - Wed) Thousands of Israelis missing near WTC, Pentagon Wednesday September 12, 2001 The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack.

    The list is made up of people who have not yet made contact with friends or family, Army Radio reported.

    Telephone connections between Israel and the New York City and Washington, D.C. areas has been sporadic and unreliable since the multiple attacks yesterday.

    Ten thousand people are estimated to have been killed in the New York attacks and another 800 in Washington.

    Several hundred also went down with the hijacked planes.

LW - The JP implied that the missing were dead with what they say in their second to last line.

What they say in that second to last line is but a repetition of what had been widely reported at the time.

What they say in the third to last line (now bolded) is a much stronger implication as to why these 4000 had not yet made contact with family and friends, and it does, in fact, suggest the possibility that they may all still be alive (however incommunicado). This is, I think, where the false claim (that these 4000 Israelis were all absent from work at the WTC) originated... the notion that they had somehow miraculously survived the attack.

In any event, it's still a far cry from your earlier assertion as to what it is that "Israeli leadership" supposedly claimed. As far as I can see, nobody anywhere ever "claimed" that these 4000 Israelis had actually died. At best, one can only draw erroneous inferences from reports in the media.


Anyway, thanks for posting the JP story. It did add some much-needed clarification on the matter.
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Offline Rudi Jan

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- Obama proclaims 9/11 anniv. Patriot Day, Natl. Day of Service and Remembrance
« Reply #163 on: October 06, 2012, 03:21:37 PM »
In any event, it's still a far cry from your earlier assertion as to what it is that "Israeli leadership" supposedly claimed. As far as I can see, nobody anywhere ever "claimed" that these 4000 Israelis had actually died. At best, one can only draw erroneous inferences from reports in the media.

If you consider the Israeli ambassador when bringing this concern for the 4000 up with CNN the same day as the attack as a low level operative you would be right. Perhaps you can explain why these Israelis did not show up for work once Israel figured out they weren't missing at all?

Ah, never mind. This is a pebble in a gravel pit.
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Offline gelignite

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« Reply #164 on: October 07, 2012, 09:49:00 AM »
Perhaps you can explain why these Israelis did not show up for work once Israel figured out they weren't missing at all?

Whoever said they didn't show up for work?

For that matter, whoever said where any of these 4000 Israelis worked? The JP article only say where they were "believed" to have been. The idea that they worked in or near the WTC is purely an invention of the people from whom you copied the article (i.e., Ed Toner and the like).
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Offline Rudi Jan

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« Reply #165 on: October 07, 2012, 11:25:42 AM »
Whoever said they didn't show up for work?

For that matter, whoever said where any of these 4000 Israelis worked? The JP article only say where they were "believed" to have been. The idea that they worked in or near the WTC is purely an invention of the people from whom you copied the article (i.e., Ed Toner and the like).

The JP article tells us 4000 Israelis worked in the impact zone. Maybe they ran all the hot dog stands.

and wtf? I copied a JP article which states what IT believes, nm those you name. You are digressing into yet another obscure corner. Watch you don't get too close to edge of the pit with your nose so close to your pocket full of pebbles.
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Offline gelignite

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« Reply #166 on: October 09, 2012, 07:39:08 AM »
The JP article tells us 4000 Israelis worked in the impact zone.

No, it does NOT say that. You are somehow inferring that from the article.

Quote
You are digressing into yet another obscure corner.

As I said earlier, I'm not the one who is repeating these false claims.

I am simply responding to them.
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Offline Rudi Jan

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« Reply #167 on: October 09, 2012, 11:29:36 AM »
No, it does NOT say that. You are somehow inferring that from the article.

"Thousands of Israelis missing near WTC"

 ::)

As far as I know people who go there around 9:00 am work there, although, as I recall, Israeli art students did live there for for awhile.
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Offline Railroad Bum

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« Reply #168 on: October 12, 2012, 04:41:06 AM »
Whoever said they didn't show up for work?

For that matter, whoever said where any of these 4000 Israelis worked? The JP article only say where they were "believed" to have been. The idea that they worked in or near the WTC is purely an invention of the people from whom you copied the article (i.e., Ed Toner and the like).


On September 12, 2001, the Internet edition of The Jerusalem Post reported, "The Israeli foreign ministry has collected the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack."
 
The Israeli embassy in NY's version differed slightly saying 4,000 Israelis were working in or near the WTC.

The 4,000 Israelis working in or near the WTC was the headline in the 9/12/01 edition of the Jerusalem Post.  They have done their best scouring their archives and the internet to remove all traces of this edition.

The editor of the JP later confirmed the story and said that he had the names of the 4,000 in his possession furnished to him by the foreign office.

JP:

The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack.

Israeli foreign missions in New York City and Washington are also working overtime to locate missing Israelis. For emergency telephone numbers set up to aid in the search and rescue efforts, click here.


All 4,000 turned up alive and well.  Two israelis died on the planes, one of which was the airplane commandeering expert Lewin, and the other the mysterious Ms Avraham. They don't like to talk about those two very much.

All of the security at the 911 airports was serviced by one Israeli company. Likewise on 7/7 in London.  All of the security cameras at both places were apparently out of service on both days.

"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."


US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli 911 spy ring.

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Offline gelignite

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« Reply #169 on: October 12, 2012, 07:17:50 AM »
The Israeli embassy in NY's version differed slightly saying 4,000 Israelis were working in or near the WTC.

The 4,000 Israelis working in or near the WTC was the headline in the 9/12/01 edition of the Jerusalem Post...

Complete and total falsehood. You're simply making things up as you go along.

And you are trolling the thread with this nonsense.
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Offline gelignite

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« Reply #170 on: October 12, 2012, 07:30:05 AM »
Quote
As far as I know people who go there around 9:00 am work there, although, as I recall, Israeli art students did live there for for awhile.

The JP article said nothing about what precise time they arrived. It simply said that they were "believed" to have been in those "areas", and that, as of that writing, they had not yet made contact with friends and relatives.

Once again, the JP article said NOTHING about where they worked. People are simply drawing erroneous inferences to this effect.

Others are simply making things up out of thin air.
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Offline Rudi Jan

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« Reply #171 on: October 12, 2012, 03:11:46 PM »
Once again, the JP article said NOTHING about where they worked. People are simply drawing erroneous inferences to this effect.

Conclusions based on logic. Not the nonsense you believe, whatever the hell that is.

One article used as a source and you go anal over the precision of words. This the Jerusalem Post, written in Israel. Don't they speak yiddish over there? They're all so well versed in english that we over here should bow to their wording of things? 4000 Israelis did not show up for work. WHY! Answer that instead of avoiding an answer by your obtuse interpretation contained in one sentence. Deny reality if it helps... you know, like 4000 Israelis did not work in the complex and one block around in all directions. Go ahead. Deny. But for God's sake stop your obfuscation. It's borderline pathetic in terms of reason.
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Offline Railroad Bum

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« Reply #172 on: October 12, 2012, 05:25:14 PM »
Complete and total falsehood. You're simply making things up as you go along.

And you are trolling the thread with this nonsense.

9/12/2001 edition of the Jerusalem Post, headline story:

The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack.








Why have the Israelis and the Americans scoured this 9/12/2001 edition of the JP from their archives and from the internet, Mr Gelignite?  Why have they tried to erase it from history instead of investigating it and its implications?  Why, Mr Gelignite?

Precisely what else are you accusing me of "making up as I go along", Mr Gelignite?  Precisely what?  I make nothing up.  Unlike you I want to know the truth about everything.


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Offline gelignite

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« Reply #173 on: October 12, 2012, 07:40:37 PM »
9/12/2001 edition of the Jerusalem Post, headline story:

The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack.

Why have the Israelis and the Americans scoured this 9/12/2001 edition of the JP from their archives and from the internet, Mr Gelignite?

Have they? Seems to me that the Internet is rife with excerpts from that particular edition of the JP.

Are you a JP subscriber? Have you attempted to pull up that edition from the archives? Until you have, then I fail to see the basis by which you're suggesting there has been a concerted effort to remove any and all traces of it from the Web.

Quote
...instead of investigating it and its implications?

What implications? As far as I can see (from the excerpts that have been posted), the only conclusion one can draw is that communications in and around the "areas" of the WTC and the Pentagon were spotty in the hours following the attack by Muslim terrorists. Such is the only basis by which any of these Israelis were considered "missing" for a time. The very JP article you've been citing underscores this notion that was also widely reported by other outlets in the MSM.

Quote
Precisely what else are you accusing me of "making up as I go along", Mr Gelignite?

Purportions to the effect that any of these 4000 actually actually worked in the WTC. Suggestions that they were all mysteriously absent from work that day.

There isn't a shred of evidence to this effect. And nothing in the JP article remotely suggests this. For that matter, it is entirely possible that every single one of these 4000 (who were supposed to be at work that day) were sitting at their desks when the attacks occurred. This notion wouldn't be at all inconsistent with that which has been reported in the JP article you've been quoting from.
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Offline gelignite

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« Reply #174 on: October 12, 2012, 08:03:56 PM »
4000 Israelis did not show up for work.

There isn't a shred of evidence to support this notion. All the JP article states is that they were "believed" to have been in the "areas" of the WTC and the Pentagon, and that, as of the writing of the article, they had not yet made contact with friends and relatives. Such was the only basis by which any were considered "missing".

The article then goes on to mention the communication problems in those "areas" following the attacks, which would explain the lack of contact.

Nothing at all about where they were employed or if they showed up for work that day.

Do you have any idea how many tens of thousands of Israelis are in those "areas" at any given time? How many of them are going to school? Or visiting relatives? Or just there on vacation (i.e., as a tourist)? Given the communication problems to which the JP article (from which you and others have been liberally quoting) alludes, it's no surprise that a percentage of them would have lost contact with concerned friends and relatives back home, and that those concerned friends and relatives would have made a bit of noise, given the great loss of life at the hands of Islamic extremists.

I think these are some of the areas one should explore before concluding that any Israelis were mysteriously absent from work.
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Offline OldTimes

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« Reply #175 on: October 12, 2012, 08:13:11 PM »
gelignite sure has a lot to say, considering how long ago he has made up his mind on this subject.

Offline gelignite

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« Reply #176 on: October 12, 2012, 08:24:04 PM »
gelignite sure has a lot to say, considering how long ago he has made up his mind on this subject.

Some people have, by their own admission, made up their minds as to who perpetrated these crimes (i.e., the Jews) the instant the first plane struck the Towers.

And every day thereafter has been but an exercise in fulfillment of that conclusion.


In spite of any and all evidence to the contrary.
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Offline EyeBelieve

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« Reply #177 on: October 12, 2012, 09:01:45 PM »
Some people have, by their own admission, made up their minds as to who perpetrated these crimes (i.e., the Jews) the instant the first plane struck the Towers.

And every day thereafter has been but an exercise in fulfillment of that conclusion.


In spite of any and all evidence to the contrary.

You like to argue about the mechanics & details of 9/11.  While the gov't/MSM version of such has lots of holes...let's assume it's true?  Then, do you ever consider that "19 Arabs" might have been controlled by powerful gov'ts/groups ostensibly having nothing to do with "Islamic Fundamentalism"? 

You spend much time counter-posting, how about a nice Gelignite's 9/11 Bible & FAQ to help us avoid all the confusion?  Or do you accept the Commission report in it's entirety & thus consider that superfluous?

Offline OldTimes

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« Reply #178 on: October 12, 2012, 09:18:16 PM »
Some people have, by their own admission, made up their minds as to who perpetrated these crimes (i.e., the Jews) the instant the first plane struck the Towers.

And every day thereafter has been but an exercise in fulfillment of that conclusion.


In spite of any and all evidence to the contrary.

Very hypocritical of you.  The media and the govt made up their mind about who was behind the attacks within about 2 hours after the planes hit.  We had names and photos of 19 arabs about an hour later.

It took me until 2003 before I reluctantly accepted it must have been an inside job.  It took me until about 2005-6 before I even considered jews/Israel to have been connected to it as a group.  Too much obfuscation going on (by people like you), and I really didn't want to believe jews were anything but victims.  Whatta scam on America.
And to think jews were welcomed into our country by our naive forefathers.

You can go back to Hell where you belong, with the father of all lies.

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« Reply #179 on: October 12, 2012, 10:27:01 PM »
Very hypocritical of you.  The media and the govt made up their mind about who was behind the attacks within about 2 hours after the planes hit. We had names and photos of 19 arabs about an hour later.

It took me until 2003 before I reluctantly accepted it must have been an inside job.  It took me until about 2005-6 before I even considered jews/Israel to have been connected to it as a group.  Too much obfuscation going on (by people like you), and I really didn't want to believe jews were anything but victims.  Whatta scam on America.
And to think jews were welcomed into our country by our naive forefathers.

You can go back to Hell where you belong, with the father of all lies.

Heh, I had my mind made up about 3 minutes after watching first video on 9/11:  It was a master-stroke of arch-genius Al Qaeda's Osama.  & whaddya know, both Jew MSM & Jew alt-internet supported the theory that 'Yes Osama dunnit but with just cause...& Israel knew before but kept quiet'. 

Carl Cameron/Fox chimed in with Israeli art student/spies...WaPo/NYTimes kited rumors of absent Israelis, Odigo warnings etc.  IMHO a clever strategy to solely blame Israel & divert attention from City of London/Wall St sayanim (not to mention their Saudi chumps).  Real jew/marxist dialectics of controlled opposition.  Later came the CIA/Inside Job theory...all these theories distract from reality that participants, tactics etc can be hidden behind layers of hidden control.

BTW when first watching collapse of WTC building I specifically recalled Colonel Kurz from Apocalypse Now--I equated Kurz's foes with Osama--a mistake of course.  Oligarch PTB's insulated by many layers & don't even need to have knowledge of specific plots or need to think about their vast cruelty.  They arrange the house of cards & sooner or later things fall into place:

They are truly enemies! I remember when I was with Special Forces... seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate some children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there, and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried, I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out; I didn't know what I wanted to do! And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it... I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought, my God... the genius of that! The genius! The will to do that! Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we, because they could stand that these were not monsters, these were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men, our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment! Because it's judgment that defeats us.