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Offline pope daniel

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« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2011, 06:35:54 AM »
pope daniel determines what gods commandments are not a damn book
Revelation 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #61 on: September 11, 2011, 06:40:06 AM »
There is but 1 Commandment.


Clefty, being a literalist heretic cannot fathom that Jesus made absolutely certain that He fulfilled every word, every full stop of the Law and prophecies, to complete the preordained Plan in its entirety and to perfection:
"Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is Fulfilled"
(Matt.5:18).


And

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be Fulfilled (Matt.24:34)"

And

"These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be Fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me" (Luke 24:44).



The Mosaic era ended within the first century A.D. and judicious analysis of Matthew 24 and 25 shows that Christ spoke the truth when He said that all of the described events would occur before the present generation had passed - this whole discourse is a parabolic account of the end of the Mosaic era, and is marked by the ruin of Jerusalem, and the introduction of the Christian age.'


The OLD Mosaic is Over, was over, and was Fulfilled through Christs Resurrection.
The Old Covenant was Fulfilled. It can be no more plain that this..
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline clefty

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« Reply #62 on: September 11, 2011, 06:56:42 AM »
Immaterial.
ha ha ha

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Honoring thy parents was NOT aborgated by Christ,
but killing someone for NOT doing so WAS...ha ha ha

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as other tenants of the old laws were..
such as unleavened bread? ha ha ha

or festival of first fruits which happens day after first of the sabbaths after passover...or pentecost which happens the day after seventh of the sabbaths?...because even Paul kept those

the only sundays Jesus Peter Paul etc celebrated were BECAUSE they were Old Testament festival Laws

NONE of the old laws were abrogated by Him...just the penalties of not keeping them...the sacrificing of blood...His was sufficient...debts been paid

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Christ became the NEW Law.
and so when did He change sabbath to sunday?

and institute worship on sunday?...

a house divided can NOT stand walt...and if He commanded something His Father did not that is dividing...

but He didnt...He said keep Sabbath even until the temple was destroyed


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"Whoever is justified by the law, Christ has become of NO effect to you, and ye are fallen from grace"
 (Gal.5:3,4)
no one is justified by the law...its job was to point out sin...

 
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"For all the (Israelite) law is fulfilled in one word, thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" (Gal.5:14);
yup...OT laws need fulfilling by love...Jesus' love was perfect

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"If righteousness comes by the  law, then Christ is dead in vain"

 (Gal.2:21);
you mean "died in vain" not "is dead"...and duh law doesnt perfect it reveals imperfections...hello?

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"But if you be led by the Spirit, you are not under the  law"
 (Gal.5:18).
and does the Spirit lead you to counter God's Law?

Offline clefty

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« Reply #63 on: September 11, 2011, 06:57:53 AM »
pope daniel determines what gods commandments are not a damn book

true they are in our hearts and minds and by our fruits we are known...

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2011, 07:17:34 AM »
Quote
NONE of the old laws were abrogated by Him...just the penalties of not keeping them...the sacrificing of blood...His was sufficient...debts been paid
 and so when did He change sabbath to sunday?
Wasnt just the penalties, Silly Jew.

“A NEW commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”

Of course, literalist heretics like to leave out the Sermon..


Matthew 5:21-22:
“You have heard that the law of Moses says, ‘Do not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.’
But I say, if you are angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the high council. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.”

“If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.” (I John 4:20-21)

Jesus explained clearly that all the Old Covenant laws and prophets hang on two basic commandments:
Love God and Love one another (Matt. 22:34-40).







At least 3 of the Old Laws were Restated BY Christ




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and institute worship on sunday?...
Yes, the LORDS DAY, His day of eternal rest and resurrection


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a house divided can NOT stand walt...and if He commanded something His Father did not that is dividing...
but He didnt...He said keep Sabbath even until the temple was destroyed
 no one is justified by the law...its job was to point out sin...

  yup...OT laws need fulfilling by love...Jesus' love was perfect
 you mean "died in vain" not "is dead"...and duh law doesnt perfect it reveals imperfections...hello?
and does the Spirit lead you to counter God's Law?

Silly rabbit, tricks are for Jews..

The law's purpose was to expose sin (old covenant). Jesus purpose was to defeat sin (new covenant).

"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline clefty

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« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2011, 07:29:23 AM »
There is but 1 Commandment.
obey the church?

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Clefty, being a literalist heretic cannot fathom that Jesus made absolutely certain that He fulfilled every word, every full stop of the Law and prophecies, to complete the preordained Plan in its entirety and to perfection:
"Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is Fulfilled"
(Matt.5:18).
when jesus fulfilled the law did heaven and earth pass? nope...not all is fulfilled there is MORE to come...the Law is still needed



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"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be Fulfilled (Matt.24:34)"
um you mean the end of time and the second coming has already occured in that generation? because after the judgement day the law is no longer needed because sin will be destroyed and there will be nothing to point out

but Jesus fulfilled the requirements of blood by His death in that generation

the temple was destroyed and the end of Israel's reign occured in that generation

Quote

"These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be Fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me" (Luke 24:44).
and Jesus fulfilled them...you mean destroy right?

ok so all things are destroyed so we dont have to keep the OT laws right?

so we can covet steal cheat lie kill?

that does explain your church

but keep unleavened bread because Jesus did...

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The Mosaic era ended within the first century A.D. and judicious analysis of Matthew 24 and 25 shows that Christ spoke the truth when He said that all of the described events would occur before the present generation had passed - this whole discourse is a parabolic account of the end of the Mosaic era, and is marked by the ruin of Jerusalem, and the introduction of the Christian age.'
indeed the mosaic era was over...but not God's Law...but more and more I see the Christian age does not follow God's Law...


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The OLD Mosaic is Over, was over, and was Fulfilled through Christs Resurrection.
The Old Covenant was Fulfilled. It can be no more plain that this..
and the new covenant has new laws which counter the old covenant and the old laws

ok got it...christians do indeed follow new laws...ironically to build the New JOOrusalem...ha ha ha


Offline clefty

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« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2011, 07:52:14 AM »
Wasnt just the penalties, Silly Jew.

“A NEW commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”
this was already in the old testament nothing new...they just forgot it...

lev 19:18 love your neighbor as yourself...see?



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Jesus explained clearly that all the Old Covenant laws and prophets hang on two basic commandments:
Love God and Love one another (Matt. 22:34-40).

He was right love God Deut 6:5
Love one another Lev 19:18

all in the OT...

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At least 3 of the Old Laws were Restated BY Christ
Hope you included sabbath which He instructed to be kept even after His death...



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Yes, the LORDS DAY, His day of eternal rest and resurrection
just because people chose to worship on sunday doesnt mean He commanded or instructed to do so...

people have also KILLED FOR JESUS..


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The law's purpose was to expose sin (old covenant). Jesus purpose was to defeat sin (new covenant).
sin is still around still needs exposing...sin is defeated through faith...but not actually that comes later...after the judgement day LORD'S DAY which depends on the LAW...the one Jesus did NOT change...

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2011, 08:12:54 AM »
this was already in the old testament nothing new...they just forgot it...

lev 19:18 love your neighbor as yourself...see?

Christ called it a NEW Commandment.  It cant get more clearer than this, or when Christ was asked which was the most important.


“A NEW commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”





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just because people chose to worship on sunday doesnt mean He commanded or instructed to do so...
NOWHERE in the Bible or in HIS teachings did he instruct us to Keep the Sabbath.

Rather HE Is OUR LORD, Lord of the Sabbath and can change it if it suits HIM. It did and HE did

"The Sabbath" is not The Lords Day, no one should say it is.
The Sabbath is a Jewish Holiday for Jews under the law, period, should be the end of discussion for Christians, so-called. And it is.
Ive made my case for Christian worship on the Lords Day, Sunday, the first day of the week.

Christ rose on Sunday for one reason, it's because he chose that day. (John 10:17-18)
Christ said he has power to lay down his life and take it up again, no one takes it from him.
He chose only one day-Sunday.

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people have also KILLED FOR JESUS..
Christ would not have us killing for him, but in defense of our lives, laws and our moral code.



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sin is still around still needs exposing...sin is defeated through faith...but not actually that comes later...after the judgement day LORD'S DAY which depends on the LAW...the one Jesus did NOT change...
Jesus Fulfilled the law, it is over and invalidated, made perfect through HIM and now obsolete.
Nothing comes later, except HIS reign.  Our Faith, works and sacraments are for NOW.

"These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be Fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me" (Luke 24:44).


There is nothing left to debate.
The Old Mosaic Law is Fulfilled, Over, invalidated through HIM and HIS Resurrection.
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2011, 08:16:26 AM »

 Hope you included sabbath which He instructed to be kept even after His death...


Show me the verse, just one, Judaizer.

You cant, it does not exist.

Silly rabbit, tricks are for Jews..


"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline pope daniel

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« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2011, 08:16:55 AM »
just give it up guys, the debate over 2000 year old jew media can't be won...fortunately though, pope daniel is available for our generation to set matters straight.
Revelation 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.

Offline clefty

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« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2011, 08:38:19 AM »

Christ would not have us killing for him, but in defense of our lives, laws and our moral code.

ha ha ha

this alone indicates you miss what jesus was about...

he said "love your enemies" he warned we were to be persecuted and killed for him

he instructed if we are not recieved we are not to kill dissenters but shake the dust off our sandals and MOVE ON...

 our laws our moral codes? as if...ha ha ha

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2011, 08:50:15 AM »
ha ha ha

this alone indicates you miss what jesus was about...

he said "love your enemies" he warned we were to be persecuted and killed for him

he instructed if we are not recieved we are not to kill dissenters but shake the dust off our sandals and MOVE ON...

 our laws our moral codes? as if...ha ha ha

Our enemies are those that hate us (Jews and Judaizer sympathizers).
Yes we love them and show them the way.

But to those that corrupt or seek to harm us, we are commanded to protect our lives.
Luke 22:35-38



“But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”

"I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."



 Violent self-defence ( the use of weapons in self-defense) can  be used as a last resort.
 If we are fighting attackers off, we must still continue to love them and pray for them.

"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline pope daniel

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« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2011, 11:42:32 AM »
no we do not love jews
Revelation 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.

Offline clefty

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« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2011, 07:27:50 PM »

Show me the verse, just one, Judaizer.


sabbath was made for MAN...see? simple...

"Lord of the sabbath"...got it?...not "Lord of the sunday"

Sabbath validates that Jesus was creator God from the beginning...

Sabbath identifies Him, authenticates Him...He didnt change His own Law...it was good...

you worship another Lord....

Offline clefty

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« Reply #74 on: September 15, 2011, 03:26:34 PM »
just give it up guys, the debate over 2000 year old jew media can't be won...fortunately though, pope daniel is available for our generation to set matters straight.
give up? ha ha ha...

after what the church has done for over 2000 years in terms of counterfeiting and deceptions and lies?...how many people have been lost and out right killed because of "god with us"?...

nah I aint given up...I am still interested

glad you are here for quidance...

can you explain why the early ekklessia was gathered all in one accord in one place to celebrate pentecost?

some claim it was the birthday of the church...but Pentecost is an OLD TESTAMENT LAW...which the church claims is destroyed at the cross

Pentecost came 50 days after the first sabbath after passover? see? right there are FOUR old testament festivals celebrated AFTER Jesus' death and resurrection...

1.passover 2. first of the sabbaths after passover (which there are seven leading to pentecost)3.festival of first fruits a sunday following the first of the sabbaths  (which Jesus is considered a first fruit) and 3. pentecost the sunday israel received the law...

and there they were celebrating the original law...

so why does the church argue that the OT is "finished" and no longer applies and right there 3000 new members were baptized into it on Pentecost the day the law was received by Israel?

even Paul kept passover despite no lamb sacrifice....and on the "first of the sabbaths"  Acts 20:7 

met with them all night... broke bread...unleavened as it was that feast you know?

 oh and he kept sabbath...and told gentiles to "come back next sabbath" to continue hearing him preach....he didnt say come back next sunday or first day of the week...

why its like the death of Jesus didnt change anything...oh wait the sacrifice...no need for another one...



oh and can you also explain why "first of the sabbaths" in the greek which Jesus rose on was MIStranslated as first day of the week...

was it to make it look like sunday?

cuz the rosary was to replace the 150 psalms

so I guess the church wanted to replace alot more of the original...make it sellable to europeans who loved the sun...