Author Topic: Old Testament = Complete, Finished-All of it  (Read 27120 times)

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Offline WaltDisney

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Old Testament = Complete, Finished-All of it
« on: August 27, 2011, 06:46:50 PM »
Matthew 19:8
Jesus tells us that
” Because of the hardness of your hearts, Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.”
According to Jesus, Moses introduced this particular law. 
This precept was not introduced by God to stand for all of eternity, it was introduced by a man – Moses.

Sermon on the Mount… 
Jesus  goes beyond three of the ten commandments. 
And he overturns three Levitical laws introduced by Moses or Jewish tradition: murder/anger, impure heart, divorce.

And

'For the woman who has a husband, is bound by law to the husband while he is living; but if the husband dies, she is discharged from the law of the husband. So if then, while the husband lives, if she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if the husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress, though she is joined to another man.
Wherefore, my brothers, you also are made dead to the law [OLD Testament] through the body of Christ; that you should be joined to another, even to him who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit unto God'
(Romans 7:2-4).


The former covenant was replaced with a “better covenant”
 (Hebrews 8:6

'Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law' (Rom. 13:10).

'Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ' (Gal. 6:2).



“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17-18).

Christ did not suggest that the binding nature of the law of Moses would remain forever in effect.
Such a view would contradict everything  from the balance of the New Testament
(Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).


Of significance is the word rendered “abolish.”
It translates the Greek term kataluo, literally meaning “to loosen down.”
The word is found seventeen times in the New Testament.
It is used, for example, of the destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans (Matthew 26:61; 27:40; Acts 6:14), and of the dissolving of the human body at death (2 Corinthians 5:1).

The term can carry the extended meaning of “to overthrow,” i.e., “to render vain, deprive of success.”
In classical Greek, it was used in connection with institutions, laws, etc., to convey the idea of “to invalidate.”

It is especially important how the word is used in Matthew 5:17. In this context, “abolish” is set in opposition to “fulfill.”
 Christ came “...not to abolish, but to fulfill.”

Jesus did not come to this earth for the purpose of acting as an opponent of the law. His goal was not to prevent its fulfillment. Rather, He revered it, loved it, obeyed it, and brought it to fruition.

He fulfilled the law’s prophetic utterances regarding Himself (Luke 24:44).
Christ fulfilled the demands of the Mosaic law, which called for perfect obedience under threat of a “curse” (see Galatians 3:10, 13).

In this sense, the law’s divine design will ever have an abiding effect.
It will always accomplish the purpose for which it was given.

If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do.
On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today.

Further, if the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ—and thus remains as a binding legal system for today—then it is not just partially binding.
Rather, it is a totally compelling system. Jesus plainly said that not one “jot or tittle” (representative of the smallest markings of the Hebrew script) would pass away until all was fulfilled.

Consequently, nothing of the law was to fail until it had completely accomplished its purpose. Jesus fulfilled the law.

Jesus fulfilled all of the law.
We cannot say that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the other aspects of the law.
Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it.
What Jesus' death means for the sacrificial system, it also means for the other aspects of the law.'

It is OVER. The OLD is dead.
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2011, 07:09:19 PM »
Hebrews 8:13
'By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.'


 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.'


“Everything is accomplished.” refers to “it is finished”, Christ’s last words on the cross signifying the moment of fulfillment.


Lev. 19:22 – the priests of the old covenant would make atonement for sins with the guilt offering of an animal which had to be consumed.
( Jesus, the High Priest of the New Covenant, has atoned for our sins by His one sacrifice, and He also must be consumed.)

Rev. 3:20 - as Priest and Paschal Lamb, our Lord shares the Eucharistic meal with us to seal His New Covenant.
Through the covenant of his body and blood, we are restored to the Father and become partakers of the divine nature.
Rev. 3:20 - as Priest and Paschal Lamb, our Lord shares the Eucharistic meal with us to seal His New Covenant. Through the covenant of his body and blood, we are restored to the Father and become partakers of the divine nature.







Jesus simultaneously instituted the Eucharist, the New Covenant, His Church, His Priesthood and the priesthood for His Church - all done during the feast of Passover - a celebration from death and slavery into new life.

Jesus' sacrifice for sin for all humanity and His ability to forgive sin was prefigured in the Old Testament on the Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur.
Eucharist was prefigured in manna and in the showbread at the Temple.

Baptism was instituted with John - prefigured in the Old Testament waters of death and salvation.
The Apostles received the power of the Holy Ghost and Jesus' gave them the authority to forgive sin in acts of reconciliation with Christians
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline irmatvep

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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 07:27:35 PM »
Oh, I thought you meant you finally finished reading the entire OT when I read the title of the thread.   As far as the old covenant being abrogated and replaced by a new and better one, that is true.  I don't believe all the prophecies regarding the end times have been entirely fullfilled yet. 

Hey Walt have you read the bible in it's entirety?


Offline pope daniel

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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2011, 08:03:25 PM »
"Hello kiddies, my name is moses. come into my van"
<--moses


Luke 14:26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple."
<--a true disciple of the biblical jewish jesus
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 08:08:54 PM by pope daniel »
Revelation 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.

Offline pope daniel

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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2011, 08:09:34 PM »
yall should evade reading the bible, it was banned for a reason.
Revelation 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2011, 05:07:31 AM »
Hey Walt have you read the bible in it's entirety?

Yes, Ive read the New Testament 4 times. Studied it with highlighted parts for review.

I did it by reading 5-10 pages per evening.

Only Parts of the Old.  Not in its entirety.


The Gospels are not that difficult.  Theres only 4 of them! 

But they are the most important and why I had to reread them.

I have a Latin Douey Rhimes bible and that is what slows me down, (the wording) as Im a speed reader,  and really had to retrain myself to read slowly.



"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2011, 05:09:23 AM »
yall should evade reading the bible, it was banned for a reason.

The issue with a book as important as the Bible, is the danger in translation.


That is not a concern, if its a Douey Rhimes, Aramaic or Greek translated text
But there are now over 50 Mistranslated Versions of the Bible, including a PC bible which doesnt offend sodomites or women.  etc etc

But I understand your point. 
Changing of one word by mistranslating it, changes the entire text and / or beliefs.

One neednt be Literate for Salvation so reading the Bible isnt the issue and never has been.

I just enjoy history, learning and combating heretics on such issues, and thats why Ive studied it.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 05:23:04 AM by WaltDisney »
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline wag

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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2011, 07:16:51 AM »
As far as I can tell, the old testament is a complete fraud.  There was no meeting between god and moses, it was all made up for jew-serving purposes.  80% of it plagiarizes older stories from sumerian, akadian, and egyptian sources, changes names and makes it jew-centric.  The other 20 percent, like when moses and god meet in a tent, with seven witnesses, is pure hollywood-esque crap.  Ask yourself, if jews are such liars today, why wouldn't they be liars all along?
Nobody gets paid to tell the truth.

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2011, 07:21:47 AM »
As far as I can tell, the old testament is a complete fraud.  There was no meeting between god and moses, it was all made up for jew-serving purposes.  80% of it plagiarizes older stories from sumerian, akadian, and egyptian sources, changes names and makes it jew-centric.  The other 20 percent, like when moses and god meet in a tent, with seven witnesses, is pure hollywood-esque crap.  Ask yourself, if jews are such liars today, why wouldn't they be liars all along?

Im pretty much in agreement with you....

it is a reference and prophecizes Christs Coming, but its also a blueprint for sex slavery, genocide, murder, theft, pillaging and looting.

"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline irmatvep

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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2011, 07:30:18 AM »
I agree completely that you have to be very careful about which bible translation you read.  I have four, the Douay -Rheims, The Jerusalem Bible, The Navarre which is the RSV and the American.  While each version has positive aspects (I do like the poetic style of the Jerusalem) most of the time I use the Douay Rheims. 

I have read almost the entire bible, some of the books several times. It's taking me a long time the read the entire bible because I like to read  the Haydock and Cornelius a Lapide commentaries and well as the numerous footnotes in my bibles so that I can properly understand it correct meaning.  I also like to read the Liturgy of the Hours and the daily scriptures and sermons from the pre-V2 Breviary. 

The more of the OT I read the more I can see that St. Augustine was right, the entire NT is contained in the old.  Both testaments are necessary and complement each other.  I guess that is what Jesus meant in Matt: 13:52 when he said that every scribe brings from his storehouse both old and new.

I particularly love the psalms as they are so beautiful.  I've heard them referred to as the gospel of the Holy Spirit.  Listen to what St. Augustine says about them in his Confessions:  "How I wept when I heard your hymns and canticles, being deeply moved by the sweet singing of your Church. Those voices flowed into my ears, truth filtered into my heart, and from my heart surged waves of devotion. Tears ran down, and I was happy in my tears".  They do have a way sometimes of making me weep too.

Offline rodin

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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2011, 08:48:47 AM »
As far as I can tell, the old testament is a complete fraud.  There was no meeting between god and moses, it was all made up for jew-serving purposes.  80% of it plagiarizes older stories from sumerian, akadian, and egyptian sources, changes names and makes it jew-centric.  The other 20 percent, like when moses and god meet in a tent, with seven witnesses, is pure hollywood-esque crap.  Ask yourself, if jews are such liars today, why wouldn't they be liars all along?

My thoughts also. It was retrofitted to Christianity

Quote
In 1883, M.H. Shapira, a Jerusalem antiquities dealer, offered to sell fragments of an ancient manuscript of the biblical book of Deuteronomy. On examination by leading scholars of the day, the manuscripts were found to be forgeries. Disgraced and humiliated, Shapira committed suicide in 1884.

In view of the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, some contemporary scholars have suggested that the Shapira fragments bear at least a surface resemblance to the Qumran manuscripts and have advocated re-examining their authenticity. Unfortunately, the Shapira fragments were sold at auction in 1885 and have since disappeared.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=77604

Related

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=88058

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=83674
Belief is the Enemy of Truth

People will always be disappointed in me, for after they become convinced I am 'one of them' they will find out I am not.

Offline Iron Webmaster

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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2011, 11:03:33 AM »
Reading the OT is an incredibly difficult thing to do if one makes any attempt at all to be consistent about it. The opening quote is a modest example.
Quote
Matthew 19:8
Jesus tells us that
”Because of the hardness of your hearts, Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.”
This clearly negates any idea that the laws came from any god as Moses allows it on his own authority. This elevates Moses to the status of a god. In fact one of the pre-Septuagint descriptions of the religion of the Judeans was to offerings and incantations to Moses for purposes of divination and healing without any Yahweh connection to him. This suggests it was that way in the 1st c. AD. Because of this passage Moses is the supreme lawgiver (as in MST3K no doubt) who does not need any further authority for any of his laws. His laws are all but the Big Ten.

Nor is this surprising as in the 1st c. AD the Septuagint had yet to become "dogmatic" and an older idea was that Moses had been an Egyptian priest and the Jews, lepers. In attacking this idea no place does Josephus say to the effect "everyone knows the truth is in Exodus." The absence of this incredibly obvious response has to make its absence of major significance.

But I digress.
Quote
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17-18)
But in fact the previous quote says he changed the law of divorce. So one or the other of these has to be a lie, regardless of the theological mental masturbation invoked to avoid the plain meaning of the words.
Quote
Christ did not suggest that the binding nature of the law of Moses would remain forever in effect.
Such a view would contradict everything  from the balance of the New Testament
(Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).
He did not suggest it. He said it explicitly. Therefore either he is correct or the epistles are correct. You can't have it both ways.

1.9 GB of pure vanity

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back.
That is all you need to know about the conflict. All the rest is distraction.
See the new biopic, Jesus Christ: Lust for Glory!

Offline Iron Webmaster

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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2011, 11:11:48 AM »
...
The Gospels are not that difficult.  Theres only 4 of them! 
...

Actually there are 46 of them. The reason for choosing only four is an incredibly stupid argument that boils down to "good things come in fours." The reasons for choosing these four are not recorded and are left to the imagination of anyone who cares to speculate. But as with the good things come in fours argument, it is unlikely anyone today could come up with the insane reasons used back when they were selected.
1.9 GB of pure vanity

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back.
That is all you need to know about the conflict. All the rest is distraction.
See the new biopic, Jesus Christ: Lust for Glory!

Offline Iron Webmaster

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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2011, 11:23:53 AM »
...
But I understand your point. 
Changing of one word by mistranslating it, changes the entire text and / or beliefs.
...

Do you mean as in the 1000 times Yahweh Elohim is falsely translated lord god when Elohim is clearly plural AND there is nothing in the OT to contradict the translation of Elohim as plural gods.

The religion of the priests of Yahweh was not the religion of the people.
1.9 GB of pure vanity

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back.
That is all you need to know about the conflict. All the rest is distraction.
See the new biopic, Jesus Christ: Lust for Glory!

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2011, 12:19:50 PM »


But I digress.But in fact the previous quote says he changed the law of divorce. So one or the other of these has to be a lie, regardless of the theological mental masturbation invoked to avoid the plain meaning of the words. He did not suggest it. He said it explicitly. Therefore either he is correct or the epistles are correct. You can't have it both ways.

Earth to Bozo.

Divorce was not part of the 10 Commandments and Gods law.

MOSES Changed the law of divorce.

Christ changed it back to its proper context.
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2011, 12:21:08 PM »
Actually there are 46 of them. The reason for choosing only four is an incredibly stupid argument that boils down to "good things come in fours." The reasons for choosing these four are not recorded and are left to the imagination of anyone who cares to speculate. But as with the good things come in fours argument, it is unlikely anyone today could come up with the insane reasons used back when they were selected.

Had nothing to do with good coming in 4s.

Had to do with consistency, efficacy, and truth and authenticity.

So there were 4 Gospels that were chosen for the Bible.



"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2011, 12:25:48 PM »
Do you mean as in the 1000 times Yahweh Elohim is falsely translated lord god when Elohim is clearly plural AND there is nothing in the OT to contradict the translation of Elohim as plural gods.

The religion of the priests of Yahweh was not the religion of the people.

Enough with Judaic nonsense.

    Clearly the word Elohim, when it refers to YHWH, is an majestic plural which is numerically singular, having a singular verb and a singular adjective.
This majestic plural is simply a grammatical form that denotes greatness without any implication that the object itself is a plurality or multiplicity.
If one maintains that Elohim implies multiplicity, then we must concede that Moses was also a multiplicity along with Kemosh, the pagan deity of the Moabites and Milkom, the pagan deity of the Amonites.


For the benefit of others:

Quote
The Hebrew word for God is Elohim.
Elohim ends with the masculine plural suffix "-ִים" From this we might conclude that Elohim signifies a numerical plural (i.e. denoting multiplicity) and translate it accordingly as gods.
But before we determine whether the world was created by a single God or multiple gods, we must consider whether Elohim is really a numerical plural.

In Hebrew, a numerically plural noun has three characteristics:

   1. It receives a plural suffix;
   2. It receives a plural verb;
   3. It receives a plural adjective.

      The first characteristic, the plural suffix, is familiar to the English speaker. In English, most nouns have the plural suffix "s" or "es". For example, dog is the singular while dogs is the plural. Hebrew adds another dimension by matching adjectives and verbs to the noun. In Hebrew, a plural noun gets a plural verb and plural adjective. In contrast, English verbs and adjectives do not change to match the noun. For example, in English:

        Singular: The big dog guarded.

        Plural: The big dogs guarded.

But in Hebrew:

        Singular: The big (sg) dog (he) guarded. שָׁמַר  הַכֶּלֶב  הַגָּדוֹל

        Plural: The big (pl) dogs (they) guarded. שָׁמְרוּ  הַכְּלָבִים  הַגְּדוֹלִים

         

      So the first thing we must check about Elohim is whether it gets a plural adjective and plural verb, because this will tell us whether or not it is a numerical plural denoting multiplicity. In the very first verse of the Torah we read בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים meaning "Elohim (he) created".
Were Elohim a numerical plural, the verse would have to say בָּרְאוּ אֱלֹהִים "Elohim (they) created". Indeed, the word Elohim appears in its plural form over 2000 times throughout the Hebrew Scriptures and in virtually every instance it has a singular verb. It is always "And Elohim (he) spoke to Moses " and never "And Elohim (they) spoke to Moses ". The same thing can be found with the adjective.
The adjective for Elohim is singular, not plural. Thus we find אֱלֹהִים צַדִּיק "righteous (sg) Elohim" (Ps 7:10) and not אֱלֹהִים צַדִּיקִים "righteous (pl) Elohim".

      So why does Elohim have a plural suffix if it is numerically singular with a singular verb and singular adjective? It turns out there is a special type of plural in Hebrew that has a plural suffix even though it is numerically singular with a singular verb and singular adjective. These nouns are called majestic plurals. The meaning of the plural suffix in the majestic plural is not that there is more than one of the noun, but that the noun is "great, absolute, or majestic". For example, אָדוֹן means "master" while אֲדוֹנִים (Isa 19:4; Mal 1:6) with the masculine plural suffix means "great master, lord".
Thus we read, "I will imprison the Egyptians in the hand of a harsh lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them" (Isa 19:4). In this verse the fierce king that will enslave Egypt is described as an ?ֲדֹנִים קָשֶׁה "a harsh (sg) lord (pl)". In this verse, the plural suffix attached to the word ?ֲדֹנִים does not make it a numerical plural ("masters") but instead magnifies the meaning ("great master, lord").
Because אֲדֹנִים is a majestic plural it receives the singular adjective קָשֶׁה (harsh) and not the plural adjective קָשִׁים that would be required for a numerical plural. The word בַּעַל also means "master" while בְּעָלִים with the masculine plural suffix means "great master, owner". For example, in Exodus 21 the owner of the "goring ox" is repeatedly referred to as the בְּעָלִים "owner".
 The word בְּעָלִים has the plural suffix even though the ox is only owned by one person. In this case, the plural suffix magnifies the noun imbuing it with a connotation of "absolute owner, complete master".
Because בְּעָלִים "owner" is a majestic plural it gets a singular verb. Thus we read concerning the negligent owner whose ox has killed, "the ox shall be stoned and the owner (he) will be put to death" (Ex 21:29).
The verb ?וּמָת meaning "he will be put to death" is in the singular even though the word for "owner" בְּעָלִים has the plural suffix. The common characteristic of majestic plurals is that they have the plural suffix while denoting singular objects and as a result they receive singular adjectives and singular verbs. Elohim is quite simply an example of the majestic plural and means "great God".

      It is worth noting that the word Elohim is not always a majestic plural.
When referring to the pagan gods, the term Elohim is usually a numerical plural. For example, the second commandment forbids us to worship אֱלֹהִים  אֲחֵרִים "other (pl) gods". In this phrase, not only does Elohim have the plural suffix, but it receives a plural adjective אֲחֵרִים other (pl). This tells us that in the second commandment Elohim is used not as an majestic plural but as a numerical plural denoting multiplicity.
 The prohibition is not against a specific "other (sg) god" but against any "other (pl) gods". Elohim is used numerous times throughout the Tanach to refer to pagan gods and in most of these instances it is a numerical plural denoting multiple (false) gods. So we see that when the Tanach speaks about YHWH it uses Elohim as the majestic plural meaning "great God" but when it speaks about pagan gods it uses Elohim as a numerical plural meaning "gods". In both instances the accompanying verbs and adjectives reveal to us which meaning is intended.

      Does the majestic plural form of Elohim implies that there is anything multiple about God? To help clarify this it is worth looking at the few instances where the majestic plural form of Elohim is used to refer to someone other than YHWH. The clearest example of this is in Exodus 7:1.
In this passage YHWH tells Moses that he will make him an Elohim to Pharaoh: "Behold I have made you an Elohim to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet" (Exodus 7:1).
Certainly this does not mean that YHWH made Moses into a god, but rather that he would speak to Pharaoh with authority through Aaron who would serve as his mouth-piece in the way that the prophets serve as the mouth-pieces of YHWH. In any event, there is clearly nothing multiple about Moses, even though he was made an Elohim to Pharaoh.

      On rare occasions Elohim is used as majestic plural even when referring to pagan gods. For example,
"And they bowed down to Ashtoret the Elohim of the Sidonians, to Kemosh the Elohim of Moab, and to Milkom the Elohim of the children of Amon." (1Ki 11:33). Here we see three pagan deities each of which is referred to as an Elohim. Obviously the book of Kings is not saying that any of these false deities is a "great God". On the contrary, the verse goes on to rebuke the Israelites for worshipping them.

The meaning is that the Sidonians, Moabites, and Ammonites looked upon their deities as great Gods and in this instance Scripture employs the terms used by the pagans themselves to refer to their own deities. At the same time we must observe that Ashtoret, Kemosh, and Milkom are each referred to as Elohim even though there is nothing multiple about any one of them.

"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline pope daniel

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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2011, 04:03:40 PM »
COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D.

Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.

--PD: The bible is banned in any language, translations were most prohibited because noone could read latin.

the bible was written in 389AD, denounced as fraud by its author jerome, shelved until 16th century.
Revelation 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.

Offline irmatvep

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« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2011, 04:30:03 PM »
I place the bible is a Jewish fraud heresy right up there with Christian Identity and St. Paul was just a usurper and not a real apostle.

Offline wag

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« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2011, 06:05:47 PM »
I place the bible is a Jewish fraud heresy right up there with Christian Identity and St. Paul was just a usurper and not a real apostle.

Saul was a jew.
Nobody gets paid to tell the truth.