Author Topic: The Traditional Latin Mass  (Read 15286 times)

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Offline clefty

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« Reply #100 on: September 06, 2011, 03:58:45 AM »
just take a moment to think about that..millions are worshipping "the rabbi yahshuah son of david", with the status of god to make things worse. no wonder jews control the world

um... he said call no one rabbi...there is only one teacher

joos control the world because they dont follow him...nor to christians...they seek kingdom of christ power

and he came to overthrow david's kingdom and did

Offline FrankDialogue

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« Reply #101 on: September 06, 2011, 07:08:33 AM »
I know Frank.
Haven forbid a Priest be a strict man who demands authority and respect-gives punishment when needed, a rigid man wit hbackbone, and someone of character.
That to the Jews is cannon fodder for comedy.

To a Zio.....Discipline bad, lack of authority and ridicule of them, is good.



I was new to the Tridentine Mass 10 years ago.
My wife just helped me follow along in a Missal, it really wasnt that hard.
In a few Sundays, I was doing it all by myself, and it was totally foreign, as I was raised Vat 2 Novus.

A strong priest who knows what is right and wrong and is not afraid to discipline his flock is one thing.

A priest who has no heart, and is caught up in a web of his own anger and misery is another.

That is the only point I make.

A compassionate priest is usually one who is strong in the faith.

Offline clefty

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« Reply #102 on: September 06, 2011, 02:42:32 PM »
A strong priest who knows what is right and wrong and is not afraid to discipline his flock is one thing.

A priest who has no heart, and is caught up in a web of his own anger and misery is another.

That is the only point I make.

A compassionate priest is usually one who is strong in the faith.

the only basis for right and wrong is God's Law...it points out sin...but you claim that it has been abolished and done away with

we live under grace you claim...so all is forgiven...no need to reprove or discipline...

only the works of the church's tradition are needed you claim...

but then you eat unleavened bread at communion which means not ALL of the OT was abolished...you keep the festival of unleavened bread... year round is true but still...

there are more OT sacraments kept by your church just not one of the God's laws...

something about authority to change that one...why not change more?

if we live by fatih why communion at all? much less with unleavened OT bread...

Offline Iron Webmaster

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« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2011, 05:08:42 PM »
please read since you didnt...from what I linked

    "A general misconception is that ancient peoples had no problem preserving fermented wine as compared to unfermented grape juice.

The claim is grape juice but the quotes are about wine.

Quote
The truth is fermented wines are subject to a number of infections which allow them to become acid, malodorous and moldy, or turn into vinegar. Pliny’s Natural History, p. 14, 26, states, “it is a peculiarity of wine among liquids to go moldy or else to turn into vinegar, and whole volumes of instructions how to remedy this have been published.”  The discovery of pasteurization has changed all this.

    Marcus Cato (234-150 B.C.E.) cautioned wine-buyers to test the wine in jars within three days to assure it was neither musty nor sour. This shows how quickly wine is subject to turn sour or musty. To new wine, boiled-down must from untrod grapes, or salt or marble dust, resin was to be used to help preserve wine. Other authors suggest preservatives such as lime, sulphur fumes, or crushed iris. The use of all these ingredients shows that preservation of wine was more complex than many assume.

The words do in fact refer to the preservation of wine exactly at they says. The methods are to prevent primarily vinegar bacteria from converting the alcohol into (sour) vinegar or some other undesirable organism from producing a moldy result.

One of the methods to cover up sourness in wine was to boil it in lead pots. A fact with which we are happily unfamiliar is that lead organic compounds are generally sweet. This does not mean sweet like sugar syrup but sweet in the sense of a wine which is not described as dry, sweetness as in hint of rather than syrup. Wild yeasts generally cannot survive the alcohol concentration needed to convert all the sugars so they result in wines which we would describe as sweet, generally sweeter than today's popular taste.

Another factoid is that while complete fermentation can take over two weeks, more than half the fermentation is completed in three days -- to roughly a beer alcohol level. You will note that is where it is recommended to test. It can not have a sour taste unless alcohol has been produced. It is tested here as that is when the vinegar bacteria will have produced tastable amounts. So boiling at that point stops all biological activity leaving alcohol and modest vinegar content. Boiling in a lead container comes in here. It produces a light, sweet wine that Greeks need not mix with water.

I have had some serious successes in making wine although my best results were meads with champagne yeast and a touch of red concentrate.
1.9 GB of pure vanity

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back.
That is all you need to know about the conflict. All the rest is distraction.
See the new biopic, Jesus Christ: Lust for Glory!

Offline clefty

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« Reply #104 on: September 06, 2011, 05:32:31 PM »
Unless you are going to claim the Last Supper was during the fall grape harvest instead of at the Vernal Equinox celebration of Passover then any reference was to wine. The words do not say "conduct a Pasoch" but to do a simple civil ceremony involving bread and wine. He could not have said grape juice as none unfermented could have existed in the spring.

this may explain why water is added...also not in the original last supper but added later...

The practice of mingling wine with water apparently originated, as Leon C. Field points out, "not necessarily in the weakening of alcoholic wine, but in the thinning of boiled wines and the thick juices of the crushed clusters."18 Instruction about this had already been given three centuries before by Pope Julius I (A.D. 337) in a decree which read: "But if necessary let the cluster be pressed into the cup and water mingled with it."19

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/3.html

this link has interesting methods and historical sources as to grape juice preservation...and further chapters as to why it was NOT wine but grape juice

besides the juice was a post babylonian addition to the mosiac tradition of the feast of the unleavened....

so Joos corrupted first...but then Jesus said do this unleavened festival thingy "in remembrance of me"...and catholics do it every sunday because they forgot to remember...that and the sabbath... they forgot to remember the sabbath day...which is ok I guess since they dont worship "lord of the sabbath"

oh and the foot washing that was an addition too...and given as an example by jesus to do...but they dont do that every time they eat the unleavened bread...oh well...

pick and choose

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #105 on: September 07, 2011, 03:50:35 PM »
Thanks for that most interesting fictional account of biblical history, Clefty




"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline clefty

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« Reply #106 on: September 07, 2011, 07:40:34 PM »
Thanks for that most interesting fictional account of biblical history, Clefty




which part was fiction?

thanks for corrupting the original...and for more pictures of Joos...have them all around the house I imagine

Offline clefty

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« Reply #107 on: September 24, 2011, 04:39:28 AM »
Thanks for that most interesting fictional account of biblical history, Clefty

you changing the grape juice to wine making the nations drunk with fornication is not fictional

Jesus did not change the passover festival He changed its INTENT..."THIS DO IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME" signifies no change in the ceremony but to remember He saved us not from earthly powers like egyptians but from SIN and its witness against us...

He made clear instructions and was specific...if Sabbath was changed He would have done the same.

He indeed revalidated and instructed to follow His example of the feast of unleavened bread an OT ceremonial law.

You made the following changes:

from once a year to weekly
from a random day of the week to sunday
from everyone feeds and serves themselves to priest inserts
from grape juice to wine
from everyone partakes to exclude non believers or excommunicated
from from evening meal to morning snack
from including footwashing to ?
from merely bread and juice as symbolic to actual flesh and blood and then you bury/burn christ (the leftovers)

what remains the same in your traditon is:

its being kept despite it being an OT ceremonial law
its being unleavened bread despite it being an OT ceremonial law...

yup an OT law just like Sabbath which Jesus exemplified and instructed to keep and revalidated

Even His disciples kept it in their haste to bury Him prior the start of a sabbath...

again, Jesus gave instructions that were clear and the example was given...you changed it

you counterfeited...

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #108 on: September 24, 2011, 05:44:45 AM »


Its so easy even a Judaized Prot or Crypto Jew like Clefty cant deny its truth..


In that he said, A New covenant, he has made the first old.  Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13


"But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on BETTER PROMISES."
 (Hebrews 8:6)


"Then He (Jesus) took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, 'Drink from it, all of you.  For this is My blood of the NEW COVENANT, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.' "
 (Matthew 26:27-28).




A song for Clefty.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HAfvBHQtyzM" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/HAfvBHQtyzM</a>


"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline clefty

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« Reply #109 on: September 24, 2011, 05:56:31 AM »

Its so easy even a Judaized Prot or Crypto Jew like Clefty cant deny its truth..


In that he said, A New covenant, he has made the first old.  Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13


"But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on BETTER PROMISES."
 (Hebrews 8:6)


"Then He (Jesus) took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, 'Drink from it, all of you.  For this is My blood of the NEW COVENANT, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.' "
 (Matthew 26:27-28).




its true I dont deny a "new" covenant...I do deny its ordinances and laws were changed...

this "new" covenant was signed and sealed declared "it is finished", the sacrificial act for salvation was completed with His blood and death...

however NO CHANGES HAD BEEN MADE to the requirements which identified the Signer of this covenant...Lord of Sabbath

those changes came after....long after...and outside of scripture and by tradition of man...as your church teaches...

He remains Lord of the Sabbath...

happy sabbath walt...it was made for you...but you can choose to reject it...


Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #110 on: September 24, 2011, 06:19:20 AM »
its true I dont deny a "new" covenant...I do deny its ordinances and laws were changed...

this "new" covenant was signed and sealed declared "it is finished", the sacrificial act for salvation was completed with His blood and death...

however NO CHANGES HAD BEEN MADE to the requirements which identified the Signer of this covenant...Lord of Sabbath

those changes came after....long after...and outside of scripture and by tradition of man...as your church teaches...

He remains Lord of the Sabbath...

happy sabbath walt...it was made for you...but you can choose to reject it...

covenant means:
    "a written agreement or promise . . . between two or more parties, especially for the performance of some action" (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary).

A covenant is an agreement; Commandments are laws or terms of the agreement.
The Ten Commandments are the words of the covenant NOT the covenant itself
(Exodus 34:27-28).

The covenant or agreement became obsolete.
That said, certain specific PARTS of Old Testament law are specifically referred to in the New Testament as no longer necessary.'

Including the day we worship HIM, the day of HIS resurrection and ascension INTO heaven.


Bye, Bye Zio Troll








"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline clefty

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« Reply #111 on: September 24, 2011, 06:45:21 AM »
covenant means:
    "a written agreement or promise . . . between two or more parties, especially for the performance of some action" (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary).

A covenant is an agreement; Commandments are laws or terms of the agreement.
The Ten Commandments are the words of the covenant NOT the covenant itself
(Exodus 34:27-28).

The covenant or agreement became obsolete.
That said, certain specific PARTS of Old Testament law are specifically referred to in the New Testament as no longer necessary.'

Including the day we worship HIM, the day of HIS resurrection and ascension INTO heaven.


Bye, Bye Zio Troll

He remains Lord of the Sabbath...you choose another day

Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever...He is God...He changeth not...

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #112 on: September 24, 2011, 06:55:54 AM »
He remains Lord of the Sabbath...you choose another day

Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever...He is God...He changeth not...

He chose TO Change his death, resurrection and ascension, TO Sunday, The Lords Day.

Sorry, Zio troll.
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline clefty

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« Reply #113 on: September 24, 2011, 10:44:02 AM »
He chose TO Change his death, resurrection and ascension, TO Sunday, The Lords Day.

Sorry, Zio troll.

if you werent so busy throwing out the OT or ignoring it or counter it or twisting it you would realize that Jesus did not choose anything...He came on His Father's Mission as was foretold prophecized and PLANNED in the OT...

He did not raise Himself...

He was killed on passover...as the LAMB...and rose 3 days AND 3 nights later...to be presented as First Fruit on day following sabbath

even Daniel knew of the mid week sacrifice...

zio troll? ha ha ha...as if I am trying to rebuild Joorusalem for holy roman empire...


Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #114 on: September 24, 2011, 01:13:21 PM »
if you werent so busy throwing out the OT or ignoring it or counter it or twisting it you would realize that Jesus did not choose anything...He came on His Father's Mission as was foretold prophecized and PLANNED in the OT...

He did not raise Himself...
He was killed on passover...as the LAMB...and rose 3 days AND 3 nights later...to be presented as First Fruit on day following sabbath

even Daniel knew of the mid week sacrifice...
zio troll? ha ha ha...as if I am trying to rebuild Joorusalem for holy roman empire...

If HE is GOD, of course he chose.  And made it happen.

And his Resurrection was on Sunday, day After Sabbath

and if HE didnt Raise Himself, Who did?

Zio troll

"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline pope daniel

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« Reply #115 on: September 25, 2011, 03:27:13 AM »
If HE is GOD, of course he chose.  And made it happen.

And his Resurrection was on Sunday, day After Sabbath

and if HE didnt Raise Himself, Who did?

Zio troll

the LORD silly
Revelation 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #116 on: September 25, 2011, 05:24:57 AM »
Our Lord..


Our Lady.

"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline clefty

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« Reply #117 on: September 25, 2011, 08:41:18 AM »
If HE is GOD, of course he chose. And made it happen.

And his Resurrection was on Sunday, day After Sabbath

and if HE didnt Raise Himself, Who did?

His Father rose Him...

according to plan and to prophecy as outlined in OT which is His words and will...

Jesus was given authority by His Father...sure Jesus had power as Satan knew and tried to tempt and hijack...but Jesus power is only in OBEDIENCE...

He has authority and thus power to raise the temple in three days or take up His life again...

BUT BECAUSE HE OBEYS....and is WORTHY

thats why He followed His Father's Will...to EVERY JOT AND TITTLE OF THE LAW

Even His Father cannot go against HIS OWN WORD...as Moses proved when he protected Israel from His wrath by reminding Him of the PROMISES He made to their father Abraham...

GOD DOES NOT DIE...

Jesus as GOD could never be killed but as Son of Man He took on sin which seperated Him from LIFE and thus HE DIED after feeling abandoned by HIS FATHER "Why hast thou abandoned me?"

because SIN which is disobedience to the LIVING LAW seperates...thus Jesus died...as a sacrifice
for a specific reason at a specific time and resurrected/healed as first fruit to be presented the day after sabbath...

He rose because He was WORTHY innocent through obedience...

That's why He remains Lord of the SABBATH as GOD DOES NOT COUNTER GOD...

nor make changes to the His Law..the sign of His authority...His Sabbath

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #118 on: September 25, 2011, 09:31:21 AM »
You type but say nothing, or rather, the same Zio nonsense over and over and over.

HE did, because it was chosen for HIM to Resurrect Himself ON Sunday, Our Lords Day. Just as HE Made changes to the Laws.
Sabbath is Anti Christian.

Nice try, ZIO Troll

"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline clefty

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« Reply #119 on: September 25, 2011, 06:56:20 PM »

HE did, because it was chosen for HIM to Resurrect Himself
 

" Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."

It is quite clear what Jesus was giving up...and Whose will He was following...according to OT plan which was His Father's

Quote
ON Sunday, Our Lords Day.

Quote
Just as HE Made changes to the Laws.
HE made no change to Sabbath law...you claim He did because He appeared on what you claim is Sunday..

I have shown you that the only thing discovered that morning was an empty tomb...the angel said "He IS RISEN" notice the past tense....it was not occuring while the women were there discovering the empty tomb

the earthquake and bright light revealed merely an angel rolling the stone away from an EMPTY TOMB...Jesus was long gone

and you insist King James made changes in the translation and I agree..."First DAY" IS MISTRANSLATED from FIRST of the Sabbaths...

man chose to worship Him on Sunday...man made the changes...

Had Jesus made the changes He would have done it clearly specifically and repeatedly as changes are slow to come by..

He appeared to Peter in a vision merely to change his stance on gentiles...Peter, who was still keeping OT kosher laws by the way (SEE? OT still kept)...Peter, finally understood gentiles were to also receive the gospel...

And as your tradition claims Jesus also appeared to Peter again in a vision as Peter was fleeing persecution and tells Peter "I am going to Rome to be crucifified AGAIN"...

He could have mentioned changes to sunday then...but did not....

(Hey maybe that's why revelating John says "where our Lord was crucified also..." ha ha ha)

My point being if it was Jesus making the changes it would have beein clear...

He didnt...that is clear