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Offline Jan Robertson

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« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2011, 11:18:57 PM »
I know a churchgoing Methodist who told of a sermon she heard that noted that the Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible, & she said that she didn't know that previously.  Well if one doesn't "seek" one won't "find".  The Yahoos are convinced we're in religious warfare vs Islam, they can't make the connection that Al Kayda mysteriously & instantly cropped up when Cold War ended.

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I know a churchgoing Methodist who told of a sermon she heard that noted that the Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible, & she said that she didn't know that previously.  Well if one doesn't "seek" one won't "find".  The Yahoos are convinced we're in religious warfare vs Islam, they can't make the connection that Al Kayda mysteriously & instantly cropped up when Cold War ended.

??? So how does all that definition relate to truth?  The trinity ISN'T in the bible and if you 'seek' you will only find God, Jesus, and the Resurrection ... and since the 'church' has dispensed with God and turned his SUN into the Deity the equation gets even more muddied. All manipulated by religion and the jews who started it all with the TORAH.

And what makes you think the YAHOOS are wrong? al Quaeda, is an American invention (America ruled by jews). To build a new  power base one must destroy the existing one, ie existing religions have to be made unacceptable and replaced by a more acceptable 'system'. One size fits all ... And since the Muslims will never give up Mohammad for Jesus they both have to go and that is the conflict we are in today ... Religious warefare!
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

Offline OldTimes

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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2011, 07:43:24 AM »
Jews don't hate Jesus (at least the movers and shakers don't) because they know he was an invention of THEIRS. The lower class Jew is just as much brainwashed (and necessary to their plans) as we are. The Illuminati hierachy will feed their own to the sharks just as readily as they do us if it is expedient to accomplishing their goals.

This may be true.  But I don't see how you could know this for sure.  I've been studying this seriously for years and my best educated guess is Jesus was King of the Jews and betrayed them and their order bigtime.

And anyway you just supported my point and admitted the relevance and importance of the Bible.

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That is only PART of the answer, lowly jews are only dispensible when the timing is opportune, but they are indispensible when it comes to teaching us to HATE, for them and thier ways, (it's in the bible), and LOVE of what they are against (Jesus and the bible)... it's called Diversion and Division.

Oh it's that and much, much more ... it's integral to understanding how they think and how they operate. The bible is their precuror to the Protocols, and the sooner we get to know them both the sooner we can come up with the RIGHT answer.

The Bible is the precursor to the Protocols?  So that's why the Protocols talk about how important it is to wreck the goyim's religion?

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They may not believe the OT but they still follow the NT, completely oblivious to the void left in the 'Begining" without the five books of Moses (the Torah) there is no NT .... The plan is working perfectly.

'Lowly' jews follow the Torah because they haven't learned enough Talmud.  Once they have, the Talmud's teachings take priority over the Torah.

Quote from: Mystica
Quote from: OldTimes
I know several Americans who would rather believe in reincarnation, witchcraft, and magic, than believe the Bible has any bearing on the world as it is today.  Nothing could be further from the truth.
So you know people who are begining to awaken! The Illuminati was named that way to illustrate their CRAFT they "conjured" up ways to make their slaves full of AWE.

Run that by me again...?

It's no mystery satanic/bad people rise to the top in a material world.  It doesn't make the rest of us 'slaves'.  We become true slaves when we sell our soul.

As Jesus says, what good is the whole world if we lose our soul?

Offline Jan Robertson

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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2011, 09:50:37 AM »
This may be true.  But I don't see how you could know this for sure.  I've been studying this seriously for years and my best educated guess is Jesus was King of the Jews and betrayed them and their order bigtime.
And anyway you just supported my point and admitted the relevance and importance of the Bible.

Jesus was 'called' the king of the Jews "By the Romans", and he was denounced because he tried to expose the corrupt religion of the Jews (which he grew up in) ... He was just a man, his followers were the ones to claim he was the 'son of God', and those followers were also 'former JEWS". Christianity was their way of continuing religion with the WOW factor built in.

The bible is only relevant to those who can properly interpret it, to the followers it is the source of their ignorance.

It all depends on whose 'story' you choose to believe ... I go for the logical ones every time.

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The Bible is the precursor to the Protocols?  So that's why the Protocols talk about how important it is to wreck the goyim's religion?

Note the "goyim's religion" in your query. Christianity sprang from the jews. Time changes all necessities and the jews are masters at staying ahead of 'the goyim'.

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'Lowly' jews follow the Torah because they haven't learned enough Talmud.  Once they have, the Talmud's teachings take priority over the Torah.

The Talmud is not just one book it is many volumes long and most jews never get to read them let aolone study them.

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So you know people who are begining to awaken! The Illuminati was named that way to illustrate their CRAFT they "conjured" up ways to make their slaves full of AWE.

Run that by me again...?

Witch/craft, magic (illuminati) ... Try reading it in it's literal sense.

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It's no mystery satanic/bad people rise to the top in a material world.  It doesn't make the rest of us 'slaves'.  We become true slaves when we sell our soul.

There is no Satan so satanic is a misnomer. The bible introduced evil and therefore Satan in order to make good people afraid of looking too closely at the practices of satanic cults and the the 'Illuminati', and they in turn delighted in our inability to 'see the light'.

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As Jesus says, what good is the whole world if we lose our soul?

No he didn't ... The bible did. How clever to suggest that wealth and accomplishment will lose you your soul. The only way to lose your soul is to be born without one.

Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

Offline OldTimes

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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2011, 12:44:28 PM »
Okay, so you believe in magic, reincarnation, and witchcraft.  But you are certain God doesn't exist and is just a 'tool' to enslave us by jews.

What, may I ask, is the deity you do recognize, Mystica?
Describe it.

Is it both male & female, lives inside the earth, and has horns?

Offline Rudi Jan

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« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2011, 03:59:23 PM »
It's no mystery satanic/bad people rise to the top in a material world.  It doesn't make the rest of us 'slaves'.  We become true slaves when we sell our soul.

As Jesus says, what good is the whole world if we lose our soul?

Actually... from the King James Version:

23. And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
24. For whoever will save his life shall lose it: but whoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
25. For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
26. For whoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
27. But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Suspend all belief. Get the facts ~ Rudi
No one rules if no one obeys ~ Lao Tzu

Offline Jan Robertson

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« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2011, 07:37:27 PM »
Okay, so you believe in magic, reincarnation, and witchcraft.  But you are certain God doesn't exist and is just a 'tool' to enslave us by jews.

What, may I ask, is the deity you do recognize, Mystica?
Describe it.

Is it both male & female, lives inside the earth, and has horns?

Where did I say I believe that crap? That is what is 'practiced' by the Illuminati to keep the 'faithful' away from genuine knowledge.

Religion teaches the 'soft' version of magic, such as miracles (magic), resurrection (reincarnation), witchcraft (satanism) and a 'human' son of God. So that makes the followers of the bible the believers in crap.

There is no "Deity" that's the bible/Jews terminology. My God is the creator and can't be "described" because it is not a physical form, it is Spiritual and ethereal with NO gender, and is imprinted in my DNA, So who or what is yours? ... Describe it.

When you can't come up with logical replies, and resort to impiety, it shows your lack of knowledge and understanding of religious dogma, and how totally 'under the spell' of the "Chosen" you really are.

Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

Offline EyeBelieve

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« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2011, 08:39:05 PM »
??? So how does all that definition relate to truth?  The trinity ISN'T in the bible and if you 'seek' you will only find God, Jesus, and the Resurrection ... and since the 'church' has dispensed with God and turned his SUN into the Deity the equation gets even more muddied. All manipulated by religion and the jews who started it all with the TORAH.

OK, but my point was that avg Christian doesn't work too hard at investigating their own "religion".

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And what makes you think the YAHOOS are wrong? al Quaeda, is an American invention (America ruled by jews). To build a new  power base one must destroy the existing one, ie existing religions have to be made unacceptable and replaced by a more acceptable 'system'. One size fits all ... And since the Muslims will never give up Mohammad for Jesus they both have to go and that is the conflict we are in today ... Religious warefare!

The religious warfare is just cover for imperial struggle for power, oil, money etc.  The system will use any excuse convenient.
[/quote]

Offline Jan Robertson

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« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2011, 10:34:19 AM »
OK, but my point was that avg Christian doesn't work too hard at investigating their own "religion".

That's because they fear what they might find behind the 'Illusion".

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The religious warfare is just cover for imperial struggle for power, oil, money etc.  The system will use any excuse convenient.

Which 'system' are you talking about? The Jew led government or the Zionist bankers/ oil cartels? Warfare is fueled by religion whichever 'system' is used.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

Offline Sue

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« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2011, 11:10:57 AM »
THEY create only to destroy, it all worked like a charm, while they, these creators, have been and still are, laughing all the way to bank.

'Forged: Writing in the Name of God
Why the Bible’s Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are'


Bart D. Ehrman Author

Apart from the most rabid fundamentalists among us, nearly everyone admits that the Bible might contain errors -- a faulty creation story here, a historical mistake there, a contradiction or two in some other place. But is it possible that the problem is worse than that -- that the Bible actually contains lies?

Most people wouldn't put it that way, since the Bible is, after all, sacred Scripture for millions on our planet. But good Christian scholars of the Bible, including the top Protestant and Catholic scholars of America, will tell you that the Bible is full of lies, even if they refuse to use the term. And here is the truth: Many of the books of the New Testament were written by people who lied about their identity, claiming to be a famous apostle -- Peter, Paul or James -- knowing full well they were someone else. In modern parlance, that is a lie, and a book written by someone who lies about his identity is a forgery.

Most modern scholars of the Bible shy away from these terms, and for understandable reasons, some having to do with their clientele. Teaching in Christian seminaries, or to largely Christian undergraduate populations, who wants to denigrate the cherished texts of Scripture by calling them forgeries built on lies? And so scholars use a different term for this phenomenon and call such books "pseudepigrapha."

You will find this antiseptic term throughout the writings of modern scholars of the Bible. It's the term used in university classes on the New Testament, and in seminary courses, and in Ph.D. seminars. What the people who use the term do not tell you is that it literally means "writing that is inscribed with a lie."

And that's what such writings are. Whoever wrote the New Testament book of 2 Peter claimed to be Peter. But scholars everywhere -- except for our friends among the fundamentalists -- will tell you that there is no way on God's green earth that Peter wrote the book. Someone else wrote it claiming to be Peter. Scholars may also tell you that it was an acceptable practice in the ancient world for someone to write a book in the name of someone else. But that is where they are wrong. If you look at what ancient people actually said about the practice, you'll see that they invariably called it lying and condemned it as a deceitful practice, even in Christian circles. 2 Peter was finally accepted into the New Testament because the church fathers, centuries later, were convinced that Peter wrote it. But he didn't. Someone else did. And that someone else lied about his identity.

The same is true of many of the letters allegedly written by Paul. Most scholars will tell you that whereas seven of the 13 letters that go under Paul's name are his, the other six are not. Their authors merely claimed to be Paul. In the ancient world, books like that were labeled as pseudoi -- lies.

This may all seem like a bit of antiquarian curiosity, especially for people whose lives don't depend on the Bible or even people of faith for whom biblical matters are a peripheral interest at best. But in fact, it matters sometimes. Whoever wrote the book of 1 Timothy claimed to be Paul. But he was lying about that -- he was someone else living after Paul had died. In his book, the author of 1 Timothy used Paul's name and authority to address a problem that he saw in the church. Women were speaking out, exercising authority and teaching men. That had to stop. The author told women to be silent and submissive, and reminded his readers about what happened the first time a woman was allowed to exercise authority over a man, in that little incident in the garden of Eden. No, the author argued, if women wanted to be saved, they were to have babies (1 Tim. 2:11-15).

Largely on the basis of this passage, the apostle Paul has been branded, by more liberation minded people of recent generations, as one of history's great misogynists. The problem, of course, is that Paul never said any such thing. And why does it matter? Because the passage is still used by church leaders today to oppress and silence women. Why are there no women priests in the Catholic Church? Why are women not allowed to preach in conservative evangelical churches? Why are there churches today that do not allow women even to speak? In no small measure it is because Paul allegedly taught that women had to be silent, submissive and pregnant. Except that the person who taught this was not Paul, but someone lying about his identity so that his readers would think he was Paul.

It may be one of the greatest ironies of the Christian scriptures that some of them insist on truth, while telling a lie. For no author is truth more important than for the "Paul" of Ephesians. He refers to the gospel as "the word of truth" (1:13); he indicates that the "truth is in Jesus"; he tells his readers to "speak the truth" to their neighbors (4:24-25); and he instructs his readers to "fasten the belt of truth around your waist" (6:14). And yet he himself lied about who he was. He was not really Paul.

It appears that some of the New Testament writers, such as the authors of 2 Peter, 1 Timothy and Ephesians, felt they were perfectly justified to lie in order to tell the truth. But we today can at least evaluate their claims and realize just how human, and fallible, they were. They were creatures of their time and place. And so too were their teachings, lies and all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/the-bible-telling-lies-to_b_840301.html
 


PROTOCOL No. 17

WE SHALL DESTROY THE CLERGY

2. WE HAVE LONG PAST TAKEN CARE TO DISCREDIT THE PRIESTHOOD OF THE "GOYIM," and thereby to ruin their mission on earth which in these days might still be a great hindrance to us. Day by day its influence on the peoples of the world is falling lower. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE HAS BEEN DECLARED EVERYWHERE, SO THAT NOW ONLY YEARS DIVIDE US FROM THE MOMENT OF THE COMPLETE WRECKING OF THAT CHRISTIAN RELIGION: as to other religions we shall have still less difficulty in dealing with them, but it would be premature to speak of this now. We shall set clericalism and clericals into such narrow frames as to make their influence move in retrogressive proportion to its former progress.

3. When the time comes finally to destroy the papal court the finger of an invisible hand will point the nations towards this court. When, however, the nations fling themselves upon it, we shall come forward in the guise of its defenders as if to save excessive bloodshed. By this diversion we shall penetrate to its very bowels and be sure we shall never come out again until we have gnawed through the entire strength of this place.

4. THE KING OF THE JEWS WILL BE THE REAL POPE OF THE UNIVERSE, THE PATRIARCH OF THE INTERNATIONAL CHURCH

Etc....
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline OldTimes

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« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2011, 01:18:27 PM »
Where did I say I believe that crap? That is what is 'practiced' by the Illuminati to keep the 'faithful' away from genuine knowledge.

I have a thing with wiccans and I know you've said before you weren't one, but I gotta be honest I didn't believe you.  At times your paradigm seemed similar.

The wiccan deity is both male & female, lives in/comes from the earth, and has horns.  It turns out it is the same deity jews worship, which comes out of the earth to rule the jew's kingdom once they finish their world govt plan.  This deity is the bottom-most in the Kabbalah "tree of life" called "Malkuth".

Whether the average wiccan knows it or not, Satan is the deity they worship.  But you are not wiccan, so...
Forgive me if it seems a lot of your postings sound like you support that line of thinking.

You make some good points about Jesus, and there is some confusion there, but it's hard to argue with his teachings on how to cope with jews.  I don't take lightly to people calling him out unless they clearly know what they are saying (and most don't).

As far as Satan not existing, that is wrong.  At the very least he exists as a supra-entity (spirit) manefested in the combined components of jewish brains across the world, working together and organized by people who spend lifetimes meditating on how to fool & take advantage of people.

Offline clefty

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« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2011, 10:01:28 PM »
As far as Satan not existing, that is wrong.  At the very least he exists as a supra-entity (spirit) manefested in the combined components of jewish brains across the world, working together and organized by people who spend lifetimes meditating on how to fool & take advantage of people.


ironically Joos dont believe in a satan...must have saved it for europeans to fall for...

and hades/hell as well...Joos dont believe in it but it also must have been saved for europeans to submit and cower...

hmmmm wonder who JOOS got to create sell and enforce this idea?

but to keep this thread ON TOPIC...

good thing christians learned how to bake unleavened bread which is easier to make  and preserves better during the coming food wars...

not sure why christians learned to bake it and use it so religiously...it's sooo Old testamental dontcha think?

Offline Sue

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« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2011, 09:18:10 AM »
good thing christians learned how to bake unleavened bread which is easier to make  and preserves better during the coming food wars...

not sure why christians learned to bake it and use it so religiously...it's sooo Old testamental dontcha think?

What is the significance of unleavened bread?


A flatbread, or unleavened bread, is a simple bread made with flour, water, and salt and then thoroughly rolled into flattened dough. Many flatbreads are unleavened—made without yeast or sourdough culture—although some flatbread is made with yeast, such as pita bread. There are many other optional ingredients that flatbreads may contain, such as curry powder, diced jalapeños, chili powder, or black pepper. Olive oil or sesame oil may be added as well. Flatbreads can range from one millimeter to a few centimeters thick. Flatbread was already known in Ancient Egypt and Sumer[when?].

The term unleavened bread can also refer to breads which are not prepared with leavening agents. These flatbreads hold special religious significance to adherents of Judaism and Christianity. Jews consume unleavened breads such as matzo during Passover.

Unleavened bread is used in the Western Christian liturgy when celebrating the Eucharist. On the other hand, most Eastern Churches explicitly forbid the use of unleavened bread (Greek: azymes) for Eucharist as pertaining to the Old Testament and allow only for bread with yeast, as a symbol of the New. Indeed, this was one of the three points of contention that brought about the schism between Eastern and Western churches in 1054.[1]

Canon Law of the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church mandates the use of unleavened bread for the Host, and unleavened wafers for the communion of the faithful. The more liturgical Protestant churches tend to follow the Latin Catholic practice, whereas others use either unleavened wafers or ordinary bread, depending on the traditions of their particular denomination or local usage.



I have never looked at flat breads, or German Knäcke Brot, wafers, pancakes, etc. from a religious point of view - which is understandable - since I am not religious. I like them all. 
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Jan Robertson

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« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2011, 09:30:07 AM »
I have a thing with wiccans and I know you've said before you weren't one, but I gotta be honest I didn't believe you.  At times your paradigm seemed similar.

You seem to know more about wiccans than I do, so produce the descriptions of my 'similar' paradigms, please be explicit.

Oh! and I call myself Mystica because I didn't think mystical sounded like an actual name of a person. I use it to reflect spiritual incidence in my childhood that led to my interest in religions, and from there into politics. From your reply I gather you/re a former adversary from the previous forum who, has changed your user-name and trying old tactics to belittle and demean my spiritual beliefs to further your own.

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The wiccan deity is both male & female, lives in/comes from the earth, and has horns.  It turns out it is the same deity jews worship, which comes out of the earth to rule the jew's kingdom once they finish their world govt plan.  This deity is the bottom-most in the Kabbalah "tree of life" called "Malkuth".

You even know more about the kabbalah than I do. I had to look Malkuth up as I had never heard the word before and discovered that it is another name for shekinah (like mission shock 'n awe).

I specifically said I believe in 'the Creator' that is NEITHER male or female because the creator is not a person or in human form but a Spiritual, ETHEREAL consept. I''ll elaborate, the creator is not of this earth, the earth is his creation, as we are and everything on it and above it. You still haven't described your God?

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Whether the average wiccan knows it or not, Satan is the deity they worship.  But you are not wiccan, so...
Forgive me if it seems a lot of your postings sound like you support that line of thinking.

Please provide an example of this 'thinking' ... I'm beginning to recognise your syntax and your method of deception, always making snide remarks but never answering a question ... I am only too happy to provide you with answers please do me the curtesy of doing likewise ... Or stop making comments/accusations you can't back up with my exact words.

Quote
You make some good points about Jesus, and there is some confusion there, but it's hard to argue with his teachings on how to cope with jews.  I don't take lightly to people calling him out unless they clearly know what they are saying (and most don't).

Jesus was a good teacher but a mere man born before his time. He tried to expose religion and teach true spirituality, but because his words are written by a 'third person' and translated by Jews I would go as far as saying that none of his followers know what he really said ... Including yourself.

Quote
As far as Satan not existing, that is wrong.  At the very least he exists as a supra-entity (spirit) manefested in the combined components of jewish brains across the world, working together and organized by people who spend lifetimes meditating on how to fool & take advantage of people.

This is a post I made in 2005:
 
"Satan is a figure that has been 'evoked' via the church he is only real if you 'believe' he's real. The church was able to convice the laity of his existence because the laity wanted a scapegoat ... so the church gave you one ... Satan ... and what an excellent job Satan does to keep the hate and the power of the people away from the door of the wolf. Satan is there to remove the BLAME from your actions, the devil made me do it, the devil did it, the devil took possesion of my soul, the devil is helping his worshippers (and that part is very true, because you give him that power), then the church adds another dimension and gives you Jesus (a man they wanted rid of on one side, and someone to assume the powers of God for their 'growth' on the other) and they impart to this man the ability to remove your sins and ease any guilt for your sins as long as you give homage to him. So you have effectively given the power of the real creator to two entities a non existant Satan and a man who had a dispute with religion, and sadly also given your own power away to the enemy, ZION!!!"
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

Offline Jan Robertson

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« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2011, 09:35:33 AM »
I have never looked at flat breads, or German Knäcke Brot, wafers, pancakes, etc. from a religious point of view - which is understandable - since I am not religious. I like them all.

I like them all too and have never considered a religious perspective.

Interesting that Jews even put food on their agenda.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

Offline Sue

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« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2011, 10:21:22 AM »
I like them all too and have never considered a religious perspective.

Interesting that Jews even put food on their agenda.

LOL... whatever works, they don't miss any lucrative opportunity.
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline OldTimes

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« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2011, 03:21:06 PM »
You seem to know more about wiccans than I do, so produce the descriptions of my 'similar' paradigms, please be explicit.

This has always been my impression.  I really didn't want to get drawn into this because I think you know already what I'm talking about, but you asked for specifics, so I went through a couple of pages of your last posts and this is by no means an all-inclusive list:
 
Constantly attacking Jesus & Christians.
God/Satan does not exist.  WE are Gods paradigm.
Jesus a tool jews use to control those who follow his teachings.
Reincarnation.  Magic.  The "Mystical".
Elite will kill mankind and live in the space station (ala Alex Jones).  (jews don't want to kill their host, they want to keep it alive - maybe they'd kill America).
Elite are really good guys, but deceived controlled by higher beings/reptilians/interdimensional spirits (ala David Icke).
Other fear-based paradigms, some easily proven untrue (Planet-X & comets, eminent Ice Age, Mayan calendar, etc.)

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From your reply I gather you/re a former adversary from the previous forum who, has changed your user-name and trying old tactics to belittle and demean my spiritual beliefs to further your own.

No, I've never changed my forum name or identity, here or before, nor do I think I ever would.

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I specifically said I believe in 'the Creator' that is NEITHER male or female because the creator is not a person or in human form but a Spiritual, ETHEREAL consept. I''ll elaborate, the creator is not of this earth, the earth is his creation, as we are and everything on it and above it. You still haven't described your God?

I prefer to think of God as is portrayed in the New Testament:  "on our side", merciful, understanding, good, and wise.  I have a problem with 100% omniscient since that would change my feeling of God's & the universe's nature.

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I'm beginning to recognise your syntax and your method of deception

I promise you I'm not here to deceive anybody.
The few times in my life that I have, even in the smallest of ways, I've felt bad about later for.

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I would go as far as saying that none of his followers know what he really said ... Including yourself.

I never said I was an expert.  And I completely share your feeling about people calling themselves Christians who never even bother to read or understand the Bible or anything else.

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This is a post I made in 2005:
 
"Satan is a figure that has been 'evoked' via the church he is only real if you 'believe' he's real. The church was able to convice the laity of his existence because the laity wanted a scapegoat ... so the church gave you one ... Satan ... and what an excellent job Satan does to keep the hate and the power of the people away from the door of the wolf. Satan is there to remove the BLAME from your actions, the devil made me do it, the devil did it, the devil took possesion of my soul, the devil is helping his worshippers (and that part is very true, because you give him that power), then the church adds another dimension and gives you Jesus (a man they wanted rid of on one side, and someone to assume the powers of God for their 'growth' on the other) and they impart to this man the ability to remove your sins and ease any guilt for your sins as long as you give homage to him. So you have effectively given the power of the real creator to two entities a non existant Satan and a man who had a dispute with religion, and sadly also given your own power away to the enemy, ZION!!!"

Interesting quote that I'd have to think more about, but on the surface seems incorrect...
If the concept of Satan isn't real and was pushed onto us by the Church (Catholic Church?!  I don't think so...) then what the Hell is going on at Bohemian Grove?!

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« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2011, 07:06:15 PM »
Which 'system' are you talking about? The Jew led government or the Zionist bankers/ oil cartels? Warfare is fueled by religion whichever 'system' is used.

Well you have a point except that I consider Jews to be more of a club or tribe vs a religion, at least in modern times.  Only a few Jews seem to believe in their "God" anymore.

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« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2011, 12:13:46 AM »
LOL... whatever works, they don't miss any lucrative opportunity.

How very true ... From biblical times to today, and into the future.

We need to 'count the ways' before the food really does run out.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

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« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2011, 01:39:58 AM »
You seem to know more about wiccans than I do, so produce the descriptions of my 'similar' paradigms, please be explicit.

This has always been my impression.  I really didn't want to get drawn into this because I think you know already what I'm talking about, but you asked for specifics, so I went through a couple of pages of your last posts and this is by no means an all-inclusive list:
1. Constantly attacking Jesus & Christians.
2. God/Satan does not exist.  WE are Gods paradigm.
3. Jesus a tool jews use to control those who follow his teachings.
4. Reincarnation.  Magic.  The "Mystical".
5. Elite will kill mankind and live in the space station (ala Alex Jones).  (jews don't want to kill their host, they want to keep it alive - maybe they'd kill America).
6. Elite are really good guys, but deceived controlled by higher beings/reptilians/interdimensional spirits (ala David Icke).
7. Other fear-based paradigms, some easily proven untrue (Planet-X & comets, eminent Ice Age, Mayan calendar, etc.)

I have taken the liberty of numbering your 'List' in order to answer your 'thoughts' and similarities of my alleged 'wiccan' ways.

1. Constantly attacking Jesus & Christians.
 
I don't 'attack' Jesus, Even he said I am the son of MAN, I agree he was a good teacher, wise beyond his times, but also an anti religion 'messenger'. CRITICISM is not attack. Christians need to REALLY look at religion with LOGIC and honesty. But knowing the attitudes of the faithful here none will actually read this (or any other criticism) with an open mind or delve deeper into their beliefs for fear of finding some semblance of truth.

2. God/Satan does not exist.  WE are Gods paradigm.

Because they don't exist in the way the bible portrays.   I have never said WE are God or even a paradigm, in the true sense of the word. The Creator/God created us from the ether that he created ALL matter from and in doing so he left the essense of himself within us (I used DNA to explain ether and essense, but you don't understand codes and metaphors the same way you don't understand them in the bible.). Artists and craftsmen impart their essence into their creations in the same way. That's real 'creativity'

3. Jesus a tool jews use to control those who follow his teachings.

Absolutely! They can do that because they 'created' a myth rather than tell the truth about Jesus (that he was RIGHT about them) and in so doing had total control of the way his followers think and act. Without the myth Jews/Illuminati would have lost control. Having a martyr to manoeuvre the spirituality of 'man' gave the Jews the ultimate control over mankind and the ability to direct our lives 'away' from the "real agenda" via repugnance, of racism, magic, satanism, paedophilia, homosexauality and everything they 'practice'. Without either there can be no balance. Just like our earth, more of one or the other, creates imbalance.

4. Reincarnation.  Magic.  The "Mystical".

I have never expressed a belief in reincarnation I pointed out that Christians do by the belief in the 'Resurrection'. Another of your misconceptions. Mystica 'of my username' is a reference to the spiritual as opposed to atheism. Spirit or spiritual is not my idea of a username. Spirituality is common to both Christians and atheists, and I posted that information, and why, in a past post which I will happily resurrect.

5. Elite will kill mankind and live in the space station (ala Alex Jones).  (jews don't want to kill their host, they want to keep it alive - maybe they'd kill America).

These are NOT my words so I can't answer this to the best of my ability. For example, to my knowledge Alex Jones has never made that claim but I could be wrong because I don't visit his page or track all his reports.
I learned what the Elite were up to re the ISS, (which the crew refers to it as Mother ISIS.. go figure), from my mentor and friend Kev Peacock.
I don't know what you mean by HOST .. I haven't said anything like that, so quote my 'literal' words .... "kill America"? HUH! No wonder you misinterpret my words, you present them the same way as Christians interprets the bible, out of context and according to your own beliefs, without regard to the true definition of words, and manipulated.


6. Elite are really good guys, but deceived controlled by higher beings/reptilians/interdimensional spirits (ala David Icke).

WHOA!!!! I want a real QUOTE of MY words for this one.  This is a particularly nasty manipulation of what I have said. This is what I mean about YOUR interpretations and undermining my posts ... What the hell are you afraid of????????


7. Other fear-based paradigms, some easily proven untrue (Planet-X & comets, eminent Ice Age, Mayan calendar, etc.)

Nothing fearful about those things, I have a realistic view of life on earth and as I don't believe in death (energy like CO2 cannot be 'destroyed') I have no fear of our fate. Show me where Planet X (now being called Ellenin) has been proven untrue, and show me the PROVEN UNTRUE information about a 'possible', not imminent, (eminent?) coming of a new ice age. And where did you learn the Mayan calendar is untrue?

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From your reply I gather you/re a former adversary from the previous forum who, has changed your user-name and trying old tactics to belittle and demean my spiritual beliefs to further your own.

No, I've never changed my forum name or identity, here or before, nor do I think I ever would.


So you have always been 'OldTimes'. Before and after NOLAJBS? (Why can't I believe that?)

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You still haven't described your God?

I prefer to think of God as is portrayed in the New Testament:  "on our side", merciful, understanding, good, and wise.  I have a problem with 100% omniscient since that would change my feeling of God's & the universe's nature.

Portrayed in the NT? That means Jesus, right? Not the God of the OT, but his son? What about Jesus who utters from the cross, "Father why have you forsaken me". Surely you believe those words if you consider everything pertaining to his words in the bible is the truth the WHOLE truth and nothing but the truth?

The reason you can't accept an omnipotent God is because you can't meld the God of the OT (wrathful, vengeful, cruel, vindivtive, schitzoprenic) with a loving, merciful, understanding, and wise Jesus. If you can't accept that about your God, how do you explain the birth of Jesus via 'immaculate conception'.

It seems you want a little of whatever takes your fancy to explain your God. The NT couldn't have been written it there had been no JEWISH OT explaining the CREATION, or the fables of a Jewish Moses, Jewish Noah et all!!!! 

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I'm beginning to recognise your syntax and your method of deception

I promise you I'm not here to deceive anybody.  The few times in my life that I have, even in the smallest of ways, I've felt bad about later for.

Maybe not to 'deceive', but certainly to 'undermine' anything that doesn't resemble YOUR paradigm ... are you feeling bad now??

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I would go as far as saying that none of his followers know what he really said ... Including yourself.

I never said I was an expert.  And I completely share your feeling about people calling themselves Christians who never even bother to read or understand the Bible or anything else.

Neither did I. And many who are not practicing Chistians but bible believers only, don't understand it either. The trick of the bible is it can be interpretted in MANY ways but the UNDER'LYING' intent is there for all to see ... If they are true FREE thinkers and can think outside the box!

Quote
"Satan is a figure that has been 'evoked' via the church he is only real if you 'believe' he's real. The church was able to convice the laity of his existence because the laity wanted a scapegoat ... so the church gave you one ... Satan ... and what an excellent job Satan does to keep the hate and the power of the people away from the door of the wolf. Satan is there to remove the BLAME from your actions, the devil made me do it, the devil did it, the devil took possesion of my soul, the devil is helping his worshippers (and that part is very true, because you give him that power), then the church adds another dimension and gives you Jesus (a man they wanted rid of on one side, and someone to assume the powers of God for their 'growth' on the other) and they impart to this man the ability to remove your sins and ease any guilt for your sins as long as you give homage to him. So you have effectively given the power of the real creator to two entities a non existant Satan and a man who had a dispute with religion, and sadly also given your own power away to the enemy, ZION!!!"

Interesting quote that I'd have to think more about, but on the surface seems incorrect...

Ahh? On the 'surface' it's incorrect? You mean like the way the bible is read 'on the surface', ie the peripheral view, never taken 'out of the literal' meaning, never considered that the person who wrote the chapters used/added HIS THOUGHTS, HIS views, HIS interpretations, HIS intentions/deceptions?

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If the concept of Satan isn't real and was pushed onto us by the Church (Catholic Church?!  I don't think so...) then what the Hell is going on at Bohemian Grove?!

Isn't Bohemian Grove an Alex Jones expose? ... Oh my goodness! I cannot use him or David Icke et al as a source of information but YOU can, and think your explanations have more truthfulness than mine?

And what is going on at Bohemian Grove is exactly what I have said about the ILLUMINATI ... the 'practice' of magic, satanism, paedophilia, homosexauality and deception, to lure more deviants into their 'fold' (as sheep), and re-inforcing the warnings to the 'faithful' by instilling disgust, trepidation and fear. 

Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

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« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2011, 12:33:00 PM »
Back to food...

Alternative Markets Are The Lifeboats That Will Save Us


^ picture link ^

From Activist Post

Special Note:  The following is an interview that I was asked to participate in by the good people at Activist Post.  I would like to thank them for giving me the opportunity to explain in-depth the ideas behind the Alternative Market Project, and for giving us much needed exposure.   Be sure to check out all the fantastic article's over at Activist Post, after reading this interview, of course...

More and more people are becoming aware of the complete system failure we're experiencing in the United States and around the globe. As the true nature of the control system is revealed, people tend to feel as Howard Beale did in Network when he said, "first, you've got to get mad...and scream, I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

But once that anger at being lied to for so long subsides, then we must get on with the business of taking action to make the world more just and hopeful for our children.  Many people will take to the streets to protest certain aspects of the current system. Others will do everything in their power to inform or warn their peers of the coming iceberg. Those are good and necessary functions, but they won't stop the Titanic from sinking.

It seems the broken system will continue to take on water despite the best efforts to affect change within it.  That's why some are suggesting to jump ship now before they run out of lifeboats.  By jump ship, I mean function outside of the system as much as possible.  The faulty economic system is only propped up by our belief and support of it.  When we operate outside of it using alternative markets, barter systems, local cooperatives, and competing currencies, we not only provide a lifeboat to many frightened passengers, but the paddles as well.

Below is my email interview with alternative market activist and founder of Alt-Market.com, Brandon Smith.  He explains the need and benefits of using alternative markets as a form of protest and survival:

EB:  What was your motivation for starting Alt-Market?

BS:  I had been writing for years under the pen-name “Giordano Bruno” on my first website, Neithercorp.us, which is now retired. My original purpose when I began was simply to provide as much clarity as I could for people who were feeling overwhelmed by the wash of mainstream media disinformation, especially in terms of economic analysis. This was back in 2007 at the onset of the credit collapse, and there were a lot of good writers and researchers already doing great work, but most of it was geared towards people who had a pretty intensive understanding of the common terminology. The MSM, on the other hand, was a highly concentrated example of educational dissuasion through obscure linguistics. That is, they talked big and thought small, and the rest of us were left confused and frustrated. . .

Average Americans believe economics is mind numbingly tedious, and they are right. Primarily, because mainstream financial pundits on your typical FOX News or MSNBC afternoon market show spew vocabulary particular to their field that most of us are not exposed to on a regular basis. They might as well be speaking Sumerian and posting stock quotes in Cuneiform. I really felt this was just a byproduct of the inbred banking and investment world. The complex language makes them appear knowledgeable, almost unreachably superior. In reality, once you learn the terminology of micro and macroeconomics, you begin to discover that these guys actually HAVE been talking gibberish the whole time. It wasn’t you that was incapable of understanding; it was they who were incapable of giving valid explanations. I set out in my own little way to help people realize that they could grasp finance easily, and far better than any talking head on cable television.

Until the past year, I hadn’t really considered taking the reigns of a project dedicated to organizing people around anything. I just didn’t see myself as the “frontman” type. I had written numerous articles on the concept of decoupling from the corrupt establishment system, including pieces on what I call “Alternative Markets”. I figured that launching the ideas and strategies out onto the Web would be enough. “Let some of the heavy hitters in the Liberty Movement pick them up and run with them“, I thought. Some of these guys can jump in front of a camera or a microphone and talk for hours, non-stop about any number of subjects. That just wasn’t me.

Almost out of nowhere I received an email from Stewart Rhodes of Oath Keepers, an organization I have a lot of respect for. Its one of the few that have gone beyond the sphere of education and produced tangible results, and whose members are willing to take substantial risks to their careers and themselves. Stewart was looking for someone to help him with solutions on the economic side of the globalist problem. We agreed that the military, even honorable oath keeping men and women, would feel compelled to participate in a martial law scenario if there was no alternative in place for Americans to utilize during a breakdown. If we were tearing each other apart for food and water, the DHS, FEMA, and NORTHCOM, would have the perfect rationalization for complete lock-down, and a lot of the troops would go along with it.

I brought up my work on decentralization, localization, alternative markets, and barter networks. He basically said “Great, let’s do it. You take the lead.” I was reticent, but Stewart is a Constitutional lawyer, and damned persuasive. It’s almost impossible to dissuade the guy. So, with the help of my good friend and web designer Josh Ogden, Alt-Market.com was born.

EB:  How would you define alternative markets? In other words, what constitutes an alternative market?

BS:  It was all theory based on diametric opposition; the idea that there is an opposing methodology for every political or social strategy, that defuses the effects of that strategy. If you want to fight elitist centralization of a system, for example, you have to develop your own working system based on decentralization. If you want to stop the destructive effects of globalism, you have to turn away from participation in it, and focus more on localism. The purpose of centralization is to remove options from a cultural system until the only options left are those that YOU want people to bow to, and become dependent on. If the Liberty Movement wants to fight back against this, we have to have the determination to create our own options and stop playing by their rules. I feel that an Alternative Market is one of those options.

As for what an Alternative Market is; it is essentially any method of trade outside the establishment-controlled economy. It could be based on the barter of goods and skills, or the proliferation of precious metals to break our dependence on the fiat dollar (or Federal Reserve Note), etc. It could be a network of people across a county or state, or, an agreement between two friends.

The Federal Government would call this “black market trade”, and they have called it that in the past. After the recent Liberty Dollar case was concluded and they railroaded Bernard von NotHaus with the broadest and most ridiculous interpretation of counterfeiting law I’ve ever seen, the DOJ even compared barter groups and sound money advocates to “domestic terrorists”. This was meant to shoo us away from such organization, but, really, all it did was reveal what they are afraid of. They are desperate, and I do mean DESPERATE, to keep us from developing our own private economies. If we are successful, we will no longer be in the position of dependency on the dollar or the sham economy. When it implodes, we will be relatively unfazed, and certainly not tearing each other apart. Meaning, their rationalization for martial law goes straight down the drain. The thought of that possibility really pisses them off…

EB:  Why are alternative markets important? Explain to our readers what the benefits are to supporting alternative markets, barter systems, local co-ops, or competing currencies.

BS:  I went into this a little bit above, but I believe widespread alternative trade and barter will solve a large portion of our problems. We deny the Federal Reserve the ability to collect income taxes to pay off the debt they generate out of thin air to enslave the country. We remove ourselves from dependency on the dollar, a fraudulent fiat currency backed by nothing but more debt, which is on the verge of hyperinflating into oblivion anyway. We rekindle the bonds of meaningful community once again, bonds which we have neglected for far too long. And, we openly declare our independence from a bad system run by despicable people. I see very little downside.

Another thing to remember is that barter networks are inevitable. I pursued a comprehensive study of barter markets throughout history before I even began writing my ideas down on paper, and I can tell you, every single modern economic collapse from the Great Depression on resulted in the immediate and natural formation of barter groups, some of them containing tens of thousands of participants. It’s going on in Greece right now! Alternative markets are a necessity when the mainstream economy falters. They work. Period.

I suppose my project is only original in that I changed the timing. I propose that instead of waiting until the whole edifice comes crashing down, we are preempting collapse by building barter networks now. That way we are insulated from the effects of the disaster before it happens.

Another important benefit is that barter networking is the gateway to other forms of organization. You might trade with each other, but you also might work towards mutual defense if things really go downhill, which I’m sure most of us are aware is a distinct possibility.

EB:  Do you consider them a form of protest of the current system?

BS:  Absolutely. A lot of people naively call America a “free market economy”. This is simply not so. If you have only two options; use the dollar and play the game, or starve to death, then this is not freedom. In a true free market economy, you should be able to participate in a particular system all you want, but also have the choice of walking away at any time. If you can’t walk away, or if you are punished for walking away, then you are slave. That’s the bottom line. Think “feudalism”. The most effective anti-establishment movements are those that create a “third option”; a way of thinking or a means of living outside of mainstream conditioning. This is what really draws the ire of the authorities, because it presents an actual threat to their base of power.

Normal protest in itself is fine and it gives exposure to your ideas, but, really, true protest involves independent action with tangible benefits. This requires nonconformity, and risk. Without risk, there is no chance of gain. Not to disparage street actions, but waving around signs is a minimal risk, and you can see that in the behavior of our government. Nearly 80% of the country was against the bailouts, and many protested admirably, yet they passed the bills anyway without a second thought. They don’t feel threatened by traditional protest. We’re going to have to do much more than that to stop globalization in its tracks, and I think Alternative Markets are a good start.

EB:  What do you think is the major reason for the current system's failure?

BS:  Oh man! That’s a loaded question. I suppose if I was to go to the very bottom of it all and pick out the primary root from which the whole poisonous vine sprang, it would have to be the establishment of the private Federal Reserve Bank in 1913. It’s funny, because you couldn’t even call the damn thing private four years ago without media sock puppets jumping all over you like feral cats. It’s “quasi-governmental” they used to say. Frankly, I don’t know what the hell that means. Either it is an institution under the direct authority of Congress and the American people, subject to audit and to public scrutiny, or, it is a private corporate bank outside of public control. You can’t be both. Sorry. Them’s the breaks.

Now, Alan Greenspan has finally admitted to the fact that the Fed is private and answers to no one, not even Congress, and the MSM stooges have shut up. However, the reality of that has not set in with the American people yet. Think about it; our entire economy is fully in the hands of a group of private corporate bankers who are almost all open proponents of globalization and the disintegration of national sovereignty for the sake of further centralization under the purview of an unaccountable global governing body. They go to meetings like Bilderberg or Davos along with many of our political leaders in violation of the Logan Act, where no press is allowed, and write foreign and domestic policy which is then implemented without our consent here at home. This isn’t “conspiracy theory”. This is just what’s admitted! Our taxes pay for this monstrosity to exist. We are paying for our own chains.

In terms of the immediate cause of collapse, anyone who has done the research behind the Fed’s activities knows, whether they admit it or not, that the whole nightmare is engineered. I welcome those who are skeptical to read my research papers on the derivatives crisis and the devaluation of the dollar, or the papers of many other alternative economists. It’s all there. The Fed knew it was creating a credit and mortgage bubble all through the '90s and early 2000s. The Fed and entities like Goldman Sachs knew that the derivatives and mortgage markets were an utter farce and on the verge of meltdown (just look into the writings of Catherine Austin Fitts, the former Assistant Secretary of Housing). The Fed knew that the banks were ridiculously insolvent (it has recently been discovered that Lehman Bros. received $18 Billion in secret Fed funds months before they declared bankruptcy, and they warned no one). The Fed knew it all!

So, the only logical conclusion one can come to is that they wanted a financial disaster to take place. Why? They are globalists! They want a global currency, a global economic infrastructure, a global government. The U.S. is simply being prepared for that transition, whether the American people want it or not.

EB:  We share the belief that a genuine free market is the answer to current global consolidation, but do you think free markets, or underground markets, will be permitted beyond the local level?

Who knows if they’ll be “officially” permitted at the local level, let alone the national level. I guess there will come a point where Americans will have to ask themselves where the line is. In my opinion, the line was crossed a long time ago, but human beings will put up with a lot of trouncing for the sake of “not making waves”. Under a corrupt government, the law is not for us, and it is not “just”. It is not an equalizer for the safety of the citizenry. Under a corrupt government, the law is a weapon to be used to subjugate the public. That is all. Ultimately, if we wish to survive, and if we wish our principles of liberty to survive, we will have to break the law, because it is in direct opposition to our survival. To be quite honest, I would rather be called a criminal or an “extremist”, than be called an “abiding subject”.

My suspicion is that many people feel the same way, and that free markets will spring up everywhere regardless of what is permitted.

EB:  Once local alternative markets are established to weather the transitional storm that is coming, what do you think should replace the Federal Reserve System?

BS:  Not the IMF or some other global central bank, even though that appears to be the plan. Alternative Markets are a shield against the storm, but eventually, we’ll have to rebuild our government, only then can we replace the Federal Reserve with something honorable. The way any transition would naturally progress would probably be through the implementation of numerous decentralized markets which would then take on gold, silver, and maybe copper as a common currency mechanism (being that precious metals are the only practical replacements at this time). The power to create and regulate money would have to be given back to the Treasury as was originally intended by the Founding Fathers. A new paper currency is certainly plausible, but this time its production would have to be limited by a metals standard.

People who don’t comprehend how a metals standard works always blubber about how there’s not enough gold or silver to support a currency anymore. They don’t understand that the value of metals increases with demand, and therefore, it wouldn’t matter if there was only one ounce of gold in the entire country. That one ounce would be worth trillions, and each paper currency note would represent a tiny fraction of that ounce, while at the same time forcing a level of commodity backing. There can still be some inflation, but a metals standard sets limits, and it limits the government’s ability to spend with wild abandon. Keynesianism is a travesty. It doesn’t work (obviously), and Keynes himself was a globalist cretin with aspirations of total centralization. Let’s dump his wretched theories and move on, please!

EB:  Wouldn't Wall Street have to be completely overhauled as well for a new monetary system to function properly?

BS:  I’m not even sure what Wall Street is anymore. It’s certainly not a representation of free markets or of true Capitalism (in the Adam Smith sense). It’s a kind of nasty bulbous tumor now, leaching off the lifeblood of the real economy. The bull market rally we’ve had over the past couple years is completely fiat driven. If the Fed raised interest rates tomorrow, I guarantee stocks would plummet to 2008 levels or lower. The bailouts and Quantitative Easing are the only things keeping it alive. Fiat injections are like formaldehyde for the Dow; it’s a corpse, but a pretty corpse, with blush and a nice suit. It looks almost alive, but it died a long time ago, and its starting to smell a little. I think speculative markets have a place in any economy, and investment must be encouraged. But, it should be investment based on legitimate performance, not cooked books and fabricated securities. In a new stock market, transparency would have to be demanded with no exceptions. That’s the only way it would work.

EB:  What do you ultimately hope to achieve with your alternative market social network?

BS:  We began with the goal of 50,000 members before collapse escalates towards hyperinflation. Right now we have around 1200 members, so we have a long way to go, though there has been a very exciting snowball effect in membership over the past month. The website itself is just a springboard for local action. I try to impress this on all our members. It’s not enough to merely join the site and start a group in your town or city; you have to leave your freaking house and meet each other face to face. You have to commit to real organization and real trade. You know . . . what people used to do before the Internet. My hope is that through Alt-Market, we can facilitate strong community building across the country and help people to remember that they do have a choice. That they can walk away from the rigged game and play by their own rules. Most importantly, my hope is that it will save lives, and save our country. It’s not a perfect country, but that shouldn’t stop us from aspiring to something better.

We can sit around on our asses and complain about the terrible state of the world, or we can take it upon ourselves to clean up the mess. That’s all there is. If you are afraid to take action, then I suggest you consider what will happen if you don’t. I see far more danger in complacency and fear than I see in defiance and courage.

EB:  Where do we go from here, what can people do to stimulate alternative markets?

BS:  My website is only one way to build a barter network. You don’t have to join to do it, we just try to make the process easier for you. Food production should be a priority for any new alternative market, especially in the face of inflation. Approaching farmer’s co-ops or garden co-ops, or even starting your own and trying to develop a barter plan, would be a good first step. Getting people to meet bi-weekly and discussing goals would be more than what most in the movement do. It’s a lost art form. It’s going to take a little time for us to relearn how barter is done.

Stewart Rhodes and I will actually be driving Alternative Markets even further with our Safe Haven State Project, which will be ready for launch soon. For those who feel the area in which they live is too unreceptive to barter networking, we’ll be building barter communities in states and counties that have a strong existing foundation. The first state we will be focusing on is Montana. We also hope to work with other Free State Projects like those in New Hampshire and Wyoming to give people more moving options. The plan is to set up coordination committees and welcome wagons within certain areas that will make your move smoother, as well as help you to find housing and employment. On top of this, as more people move to these Safe Havens, barter networks will grow until a full bore alternative economy is in place. I will be putting my money where my mouth is and moving to one of these areas shortly.

At bottom, we need to set aside our cynicism and our nihilism and become human again. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain. Honestly, I don’t know many people that have better things to do. There is no excuse for failure. In the words of Carl Jung; we make our own epoch.
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.