Author Topic: Life Of Admiral Columbus  (Read 3828 times)

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Offline roscoe

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Life Of Admiral Columbus
« on: June 11, 2011, 03:17:18 PM »
I am now in possession of this book by his son Ferdinand. The title of the first chapter is 'Concerning The Birthplace Family and Name...'

Offline roscoe

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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2011, 06:45:52 PM »
 Acc to his son Ferdinand we learn this-- that Columbo or Colon( as he adopted in Spain) 'chose to leave in obscurity all that related to his birthplace and family'. He then names some towns that others claim his father was from-- including Genoa.

Acc to the Translator/ Editor Keen , Columbus was probably born in Genoa in 1451.

Offline roscoe

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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2011, 01:53:49 PM »
On pg 49 of the Intro to this work we encounter the following. " But it( the bio of Columbus by the Spaniard Madariaga) suffers from a major flaw-- Madariaga doggedly adheres to the thesis that Columbus was of Jewish origin and belonged to a secret group of conversos, converted jews. Madariaga employs this notion throughout the book to to explain certain actions of Columbus and his supposed traits of fanaticism and avarice. Although the thesis rests on fragile circumstantial evidence, it continues to have its advocates, like Simon Wiesenthal, author of Sails of Hope"-- and i might add, the Marrano Communist WD.

Offline EyeBelieve

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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2011, 09:38:09 PM »
On pg 49 of the Intro to this work we encounter the following. " But it( the bio of Columbus by the Spaniard Madariaga) suffers from a major flaw-- Madariaga doggedly adheres to the thesis that Columbus was of Jewish origin and belonged to a secret group of conversos, converted jews. Madariaga employs this notion throughout the book to to explain certain actions of Columbus and his supposed traits of fanaticism and avarice. Although the thesis rests on fragile circumstantial evidence, it continues to have its advocates, like Simon Wiesenthal, author of Sails of Hope"-- and i might add, the Marrano Communist WD.

Anti-Columbus folks sometimes claim he's a Cryto but OTHO it's hard to see how Ferdinand & Isabella could have so easily been duped.

http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2009/webcasts/3626june27opener.html
You can't understand the United States, unless you go to its origins. You have to go to Christopher Columbus. It's very important: If you don't understand Christopher Columbus properly, you don't understand where the United States came from. You don't know what's embedded in its character. You don't understand Christopher Columbus if you don't understand Nicholas of Cusa, the man who defined the institution of the modern nation-state, who defined modern science; who set up the end of religious warfare as a policy, which became, again, the 1648 Peace of Westphalia. So, the institutions from which the United States was hatched as a nation, go way back in history, in a history of European culture, in particular.

We were formed, here, to escape from Europe, in order to bring the best of European civilization into a different continent. The effort was made from Spain, into South America, most notably. The effort was made in particular, beginning 1620 in Massachusetts, with the arrival of the Pilgrims, and then the later Massachusetts Bay Colony. The intention was—these were not refugees; these people who created this nation, were not refugees. They came here, to bring the best of European civilization to a new continent, where it would be free of the corruption of Europe! The moral and cultural corruption of Europe, which was largely the history of oligarchy!

Offline roscoe

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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2011, 10:50:03 PM »
Only a LaRouchie could imagine that Ferdinand and Isabella were 'duped'. The whole Jones- Rensee -- Tarpley Net is LaRouchian.

Offline EyeBelieve

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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2011, 07:28:57 PM »
Only a LaRouchie could imagine that Ferdinand and Isabella were 'duped'. The whole Jones- Rensee -- Tarpley Net is LaRouchian.

You apparently misunderstood my point.  Firstly, your previous posts, by citing liars like Wiesenthal as among those who claim Colombus as Chosen, implies that you (& the Ferdinand book) believe that Colombus was authentic Gentile.  Fair enough?

So I'm agreeing that AFAIK Colombus could have been Gentile.  & I didn't say (nor does LaRouche) that Colombus was Jewish, nor did I say that Ferdinand/Isabella were actually duped.  Rather (given that Spain had much experience trying to eliminate Joo influence & dealing with Cryptos that I feel it was quite unlikely that they would have sponsored Colombus if they knew he was Crypto.

OTOH perhaps Ferdinand/Isabella used the Inquisition-type pressure to maintain popular support but secretly use it to gain advantage in financial deals with Joo/Crypto financiers?  I'm hardly an expert on Spanish history, I just consider that a possibility.  Even that scenario doesn't include Ferdinand/Isabella being duped.

Offline roscoe

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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2011, 08:42:42 PM »
You apparently misunderstood my point.  Firstly, your previous posts, by citing liars like Wiesenthal as among those who claim Colombus as Chosen, implies that you (& the Ferdinand book) believe that Colombus was authentic Gentile.  Fair enough?

So I'm agreeing that AFAIK Colombus could have been Gentile.  & I didn't say (nor does LaRouche) that Colombus was Jewish, nor did I say that Ferdinand/Isabella were actually duped.  Rather (given that Spain had much experience trying to eliminate Joo influence & dealing with Cryptos that I feel it was quite unlikely that they would have sponsored Colombus if they knew he was Crypto.

OTOH perhaps Ferdinand/Isabella used the Inquisition-type pressure to maintain popular support but secretly use it to gain advantage in financial deals with Joo/Crypto financiers?  I'm hardly an expert on Spanish history, I just consider that a possibility.  Even that scenario doesn't include Ferdinand/Isabella being duped.

This may not register w/ U but Columbus was not a 'Gentile' -- he was a Catholic.  I personally have no problem with true conversos and  have been the first to rejoice when one emerges. i have in the past mentioned Fr's Laynez, Polanco, Bastida, and Mortara.

The first-- what U refer to as a 'gentile'-- naming Columbus as a converso has none the less emerged in this process. Actually Madariaga is calling Columbus a marrano by claiming that he was in a 'secret group'. And u are correct that Isabella would not have sponsored him if she thought he was a crypto( marrano).

Religious reasons and not ' maintaining popular support ' are the motivation for INQ. I would read Isabella and also Philip
II bio by Walsh to catch up on your Spanish history.

Offline EyeBelieve

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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2011, 11:45:31 PM »
This may not register w/ U but Columbus was not a 'Gentile' -- he was a Catholic.

Excellent.  MSM constantly belittles Catholic contributions to progress ie Catholic scientists, universities etc.  MSM cheats by claiming Galileo as a hero whereas the trad Catholics actually state that his "oppression" was vastly overstated (ie he deliberately sought to provoke the Church hierarchy) & LaRouchies, furthermore, claim that he was basically a fraud like Newton.

Quote
Religious reasons and not ' maintaining popular support ' are the motivation for INQ. I would read Isabella and also Philip
II bio by Walsh to catch up on your Spanish history.

Bookmarked a Walsh book, thanks.

Offline roscoe

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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2011, 09:38:28 AM »
U may want to read my Real Galileo

http://firstjesuits.wordpress.com

Offline EyeBelieve

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« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2011, 08:32:42 PM »
U may want to read my Real Galileo

http://firstjesuits.wordpress.com

Interesting material there.  EWTN did a show defending Galileo; their gist was that the popular (ie Joo-secular) view of him being viciously attacked by an anti-science Church is highly distorted.  They mention some of the things you note, ie he wasn't tortured or killed; was abrasive & provocative.

Your mention of Sarpi is also interesting.  While LaRouche frequently writes of Galileo as being a fraud he doesn't seem to go into much detail; OTOH he places much emphasis on blaming Sarpi for fathering centuries of bad science by promoting reductionism/Aristotleism.

Offline pope daniel

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« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2011, 10:26:50 PM »
yeah newton was a serious fraud. i mean "gravity" wtf? shit goes up goes down, i could have lived back then and called it "perpetual downard force" and been just as renowned??
Revelation 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.

Offline roscoe

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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2011, 11:57:52 AM »
I am not sure what 'reductionalism' is but Aristotles work has been  reconciled to the Church by St Thomas. Would La Rouche be considered an opponent of Scolasticism?

Newton was not a Catholic but as a scientist, he can hardly be called a fraud.

Offline EyeBelieve

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« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2011, 07:11:15 PM »
I am not sure what 'reductionalism' is but Aristotles work has been  reconciled to the Church by St Thomas. Would La Rouche be considered an opponent of Scolasticism?

Newton was not a Catholic but as a scientist, he can hardly be called a fraud.

http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2004/3117mental_slavery.html

a snippet:

Finally, on this matter of "inevitability." The rationale usually employed in a kind of formalist's defense of the notion of inevitability, is the same type of argument central to the underlying folly of all Aristotelian thinking, and also of the neo-Aristotelian modes known as empiricism, positivism, and existentialism. The problem is typified in the writings of Kepler, such as his The New Astronomy, in Kepler's focus on the fraud, in astronomy, by the Aristotelian Claudius Ptolemy and the pro-Aristotelian follies of Copernicus and Tycho Brahe. This is otherwise to be recognized, to the same net effect, as the pathologically anti-Promethean ideology of the Delphi cult, and the Eleatics, Sophists, Aristotelians, and empiricists generally. The core of the aspect of that issue which is of relevance in the present immediate context of the principles of forecasting, is expressed by the difference between the concept of "power," by pre-Aristotelian Classical Greek science, and Aristotle's proposed substitute for "power," "energy." Energy is an effect; power is the action whose footprint may often be termed "energy."

When we recognize that a failed self-esteemed forecaster thinks in terms of statistical or kindred extrapolations from observed effects, to the effect of assuming that an adduced pattern of effects is the motive for the subsequent outcome, we have put our finger on the deepest source of that forecaster's incompetence.


As for Newton he was heavily into the occult & a plagiarist.  From another LaRouchePub.com article:

So, therefore, anything which shows truthfully that in what people ordinarily believe from sense perception or mere description is not true, is a metaphor. And, for example, some idiot would say gravitation is defined by Galileo. It is not. So the difference between gravitation as defined by Galileo and Kepler is a metaphor. Newton: the same thing. Newton's concept is absurd. Newton actually plagiarized Galileo's interpretation of the publication of Kepler's New Astronomy. So Newton discovered nothing.

Newton's system was based on a plagiarism of Kepler's New Astronomy, an English edition, published in the latter part of the 17th Century, interpreted from the standpoint of the doctrine of Galileo. So, to use the term gravitation in the two cases is metaphorical, because it means two opposite things, completely different kinds of things under the circumstances.

Offline roscoe

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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 12:34:49 PM »
I am aware of who Newton was but he didn't have everything wrong. His theory of gravity concurs  w/ the idea that E rev around S. I would like to know if La Rouche believes S rev around E or E rev around S.

Offline EyeBelieve

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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 07:12:23 PM »
I am aware of who Newton was but he didn't have everything wrong. His theory of gravity concurs  w/ the idea that E rev around S. I would like to know if La Rouche believes S rev around E or E rev around S.

LaRouche is a Kepler guy basically.  When LR says Newton is a fraud he doesn't mean everything Newton (supposedly) said was wrong.  London wouldn't have used Newton as their little hero if he was laughably backwards; he was convincing enough to become part of their program of "sophistry".  LaRouche, of course, doesn't believe in the Sun revolving around the Earth.

As I gather it, LaRouche objects to "Newtonian physics" because it implies an entropic universe (tending to increases chaos & randomness) & ignores the self-ordering characteristics of the universe & esp the part of humans (as working in the image of God) to create an ordered world & universe.

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 06:39:39 AM »

From Henry Ford's Book, The International Jew

'The story of the Jews in America begins with Christopher Columbus.
On August 2, 1492, more than 300,000 Jews were expelled from Spain and on August 3, the next day, Columbus set sail for the west, taking a group of Jews with him.

  They were not, however, refugees, for the prophetic navigator's plans had aroused the sympathy of influential Jews for a long period previously. Columbus himself tells us that he consorted much with Jews.

 The first letter he wrote detailing his discoveries was to a Jew.
Indeed, the eventful voyage itself which added to men's knowledge and wealth "the other half of the earth" was made possible by Jews. The pleasant story that it was Queen Isabella's jewels which financed the voyage has disappeared under cool research.

  There were three Maranos or "secret Jews" who wielded great influence at the Spanish court: Luis de Santagel, who was an important merchant of Valencia and who was "farmer" of the royal taxes; his relative, Gabriel Sanchez, who was the royal treasurer; and their friend, the royal chamberlain, Juan Cabrero.

These worked unceasingly on Queen Isabella's imagination, picturing to her the depletion of the royal treasury and the likelihood of Columbus discovering the fabulous gold of the Indies, until the Queen was ready to offer her jewels in pawn for the funds.
But Santagel craved permission to advance the money himself, which he did, 17,000 ducats in all, about 5,000 pounds, perhaps equal to 40,000 pounds today.

  Associated with Columbus in the voyage were at least five Jews: Luis de Torres, interpreter; Marco, the surgeon; Bernal, the physician; Alonzo de la Calle, and Gabriel Sanchez.
Luis de Torres was the first man ashore, the first to discover the use of tobacco; he settled in Cuba and may be said to be the father of Jewish control of the tobacco business as it exists today.


  Columbus' old patrons, Luis de Santagel and Gabriel Sanchez, received many privileges for the part they played in the work, but Columbus himself became the victim of a conspiracy fostered by Bernal, the ship's doctor, and suffered injustice and imprisonment as his reward.

  From that beginning, Jews looked more and more to America as a fruitful field, and immigration set in strongly toward South America, principally Brazil. But because of military participation in a disagreement between the Brazilians and the Dutch, the Jews of Brazil found it necessary to emigrate, which they did in the direction of the Dutch colony of what is now New York.

Peter Stuyvesant, the Dutch governor, did not entirely approve of their settling among his people and ordered them to leave, but the Jews had evidently taken the precaution to assure their being received if not welcomed, because upon revoking the order of Stuyvesant, the Directors gave as one of the reasons for the Jews being received, "the large amount of capital which they have invested in the shares of the Company."

  Nevertheless they were forbidden to enter public service and to open retail shops, which had the effect of driving them into foreign trade in which they were soon exercising all but a monopoly because of their European connections.

  This is only one of the thousand illustrations which can be given of the resourcefulness of the Jew. Forbid him in one direction he will excel in another. When he was forbidden to deal in new clothes, he sold old clothes - that was the beginning of the organized traffic in secondhand clothing.
 When he was forbidden to deal in merchandise, he dealt in waste - the Jew is the originator of the waste product business of the world; he was the originator of the salvage system; he found wealth in the debris of civilization. He taught people how to use old rags, how to clean old feathers, how to use gall nuts and rabbit skins.
He has always had a taste for the furrier trade, which he now controls, and to him is due the multitude of common skins which now pass under various alluring trade names as furs of high origin.

  Unwittingly, old Peter Stuyvesant compelled the Jews to make New York the principal port of America, and though a majority of New York Jews had fled to Philadelphia at the time of the American Revolution, most of them returned to New York at the earliest opportunity, instinct seeming to make them aware that, in New York was to be their principal paradise of gain. And so it has proved.

  New York is the greatest center of Jewish population in the world. It is the gateway where the bulk of American imports and exports are taxed, and where practical all the business done in America pays tribute to the masters of money. The very land of the city is the holdings of the Jews.

  No wonder that Jewish writers, viewing this unprecedented prosperity, this unchecked growth in wealth and power, exclaim enthusiastically that the United States is the Promised Land foretold by the prophets, and New York the New Jerusalem.
Some have gone even further and described the peaks of the Rockies as "the mountains of Zion," and with reason, too, if the mining and coastal wealth of the Jews is considered.

  In the time of George Washington there were about 4,000 Jews in the country, most of them well to do traders. They favored the American side and helped the revolutionary colonies out with loans at critical moments.

  In fifty years the traceable increase in the Jewish population of the United States was more than 3,300,000. What it is today no man can estimate with any hope of accuracy.

  To make a list of the lines of business controlled by the Jews of the United States would be to touch most of the vital industries of the country - those which are really vital, and those which cultivated habit have been made to seem vital.
The theatrical business is exclusively Jewish: play-producing, booking, theater operation are all in the hands of Jews. This accounts for the fact that in almost every production today can be detected propaganda, sometimes glaringly commercial advertisement, sometimes direct political instruction.

  The motion picture industry; the sugar industry; the tobacco industry; fifty per cent or more of the meat packing industry; over sixty per cent of the shoemaking industry; most of the musical purveying done in the country; jewelry; grain; cotton; oil; steel; magazine authorship; news distribution; the liquor business; the loan business; these, to name only the industries with national and international sweep, are in control of the Jews of the United States, either alone or in association with Jews overseas.

  The American people would be vastly surprised if they could see a line-up of some of the "American business men' who hold up our commercial prestige overseas. They are mostly Jews. This may throw a sidelight on the regard in which "American business methods" are held in some parts of the world.
When many different races of people can carry on business under the name "American," and do it legally, too, it is not surprising that Americans do not recognize some of the descriptions of American methods which appear in the foreign Press. If the reputation of American business has suffered, it is because something other than American methods have been used under the American name.

  Instances of Jewish prosperity in the United States are commonplace, but prosperity, the just reward of foresight and application, is not to be confounded with control. It would be impossible for any Gentile coalition under similar circumstances to attain the control which the Jews have won, for the reason that there is lacking in the Gentile a certain quality of working-togetherness, a certain conspiracy of objective, and the adhesiveness of intense raciality, which characterizes the Jew. It is nothing to a Gentile that another man is a Gentile; it is next to everything to a Jew that the man at his door is another Jew.

  The International Jewish plan to move their money market to the United States was what the American people did rot want.
We have the warning of history as to what this means. It has meant in turn that Spain, Venice, Germany or Great Britain received the blame or suspicion of the world for what the Jewish financiers have done. It is a most important consideration that most of the national animosities that exist today arose out of resentment against what Jewish money power did under the camouflage of national names.

  "The British did this," "The Germans did this," when it was the International Jew who did it, the nations being but the marked spaces on his checker board. Today, around the world the blaming word is heard, "The United States did this.
 If it were not for the United States the world would be in a better shape. The Americans are a sordid, greedy, cruel people."

  Why? Because the Jewish money power is centered here and is making money out of both our immunity and Europe's distress, playing one against the other; and because so many so-called "American business men" abroad today are not Americans at all - they are Jews.

  Citizens wake up with a start to find that even the white nations are hardly allowed to see each other nowadays except through Jewish eyes. Great Britain and France seldom see a special American spokesman who is not a Jew.
That may be the reason why they reciprocate by sending Jews to us, thinking perhaps that we prefer them.

Chapter Two - Angles of Jewish Influence
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 06:57:35 AM by WaltDisney »
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline roscoe

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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2011, 03:24:10 PM »
I would highly suggest all read the book that is the subject of this discussion. It is probable that Santangel was a marrano and he did put up about 1/2 the $ needed for the expedition. At the time, it was thought he was a true converso.

As far as Torres-- I am not aware of any evidence that he was a marrano, so Ford is off here stretching the tobacco incident into future judaix control of that vice.

Like the crusades-- there were some marrano Templars--  a few judaix( because of the expulsion) did find their way onto the ships of Columbus. This by no means implys that he was in collusion w/ them.

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2011, 04:03:42 PM »


As far as Torres-- I am not aware of any evidence that he was a marrano, so Ford is off here stretching the tobacco incident into future judaix control of that vice.

Like the crusades-- there were some marrano Templars--  a few judaix( because of the expulsion) did find their way onto the ships of Columbus. This by no means implys that he was in collusion w/ them.

I didnt see any citations from FORD in the book, Im reading it now.

But I trust his info was very well researched.

He had alot on the line to discredit himself by using bogus facts.  I dont think he did.
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline jacob gold

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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2011, 04:35:36 PM »
I sincerely doubt that Columbus was a jew  ..... WHY? ... Jews would be screeching that for the past 400 yrs

Offline roscoe

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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2011, 04:43:06 PM »
I didnt see any citations from FORD in the book, Im reading it now.

But I trust his info was very well researched.

He had alot on the line to discredit himself by using bogus facts.  I dont think he did.

Why would there be any 'citations' from Henry Ford in a book written 400 yrs ago by the son of Columbus? If U mean the intro by Keen pls say so. I do not believe Keen is Catholic and like the marrano WD, he does try to implicate Columbus in the Ugly American scenario to some extent. It never occurs to him the Chas the Great had to subdue the white pagan Saxons by force the way Columbus had to subdue the Aboriginal Indians in some cases.