Author Topic: Civil War's Causes: Historians Largely United on Slavery, But Public Divided  (Read 9341 times)

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Offline clefty

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I speak of a deceased loved one.  Is their photo worshipped?  Of course not, you fool.

In the Old Testament, God Ordained

um...He is the law giver...and if He want to break His own law...welll....

Quote
Killing for Jewry and a Flag is not glorious or Godly. It has nothing to do with the militant Church universal.

right it is not godly but it does undermine america

and supporting the break up of america and upholding slavery has everything to do with militant church universal...


Quote
Mods..
Please moderate. 
This is yet another Thread HIJACK by Clefty, as it relates TO religion,  not the Civil War, and which Im sure others are sick of reading.
I am responding, not provoking or antagonizing.

oh boo hoo...at least this time you went public...

you are blaming only JOOS for what happened in the civil war...

but it distracts from the fact that the corporate catholic church was instrumental in antagonizing that war to defeat america...

many lives were lost so I thought it best to be thorough as to the causes of the civil war...and subsequent establishment of the jooish vatican federal reserve

Offline WaltDisney

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um...He is the law giver...and if He want to break His own law...welll....


How a painting of Christ, his Blessed Mother or the Agony in the Garden or the glorious mysteries is breaking his will is beyond me. 
You can take your Calvin/Cohen stripped Synagogue/Churches, along with your Anti Christ Jew Sabbath practices and eat them with your yamalka.



right it is not godly but it does undermine america
Well, make up your mind then.  You earlier  inferred that the present wars ARE Godly.  Another Jew flip flop.



and supporting the break up of america and upholding slavery has everything to do with militant church universal...
Now its the militan Synagogue Universal.
The play FOR America was in progress, Rome sided with the South, which already had states that outlawed Slavery before the Civil War.  The North which claimed to take the moral road with slavery, trafficked in  'Indentured Servants'  a polite word for Slaves, mostly Irish children.


oh boo hoo...at least this time you went public...
How many threads are you going to hijack with your Disinfo Bullcrap?




you are blaming only JOOS for what happened in the civil war...
They were behind it.  I give credit where credit is due.




but it distracts from the fact that the corporate catholic church was instrumental in antagonizing that war to defeat america...
America was defeated long before, as in 1790s when Freemason Alexander Hamilton and Rothschild did an end around to become the Central Bank for America.




many lives were lost so I thought it best to be thorough as to the causes of the civil war...and subsequent establishment of the jooish vatican federal reserve


And all this time, I though the FED was owned by Jews and run by Jews-like Friedman, Greenspan and Ben Shalom Bernanke. Thanks for setting me straight.

Jews and Protestants have been behind more killing than all other groups combined.  Prots doing the Jews bidding.
From India, To South Africa and the 1st Concentration Camps to wiping out 19 Million indians Using Scripture to defend the practice of Genocide and Jew Jacob Amhearsts Smallpox blankets-germ Warfare.
Jews caused the black plague, by their own admission, killing off half of Europe.
And former NARAL director Dr. Bernard Nathanson in his book CONFESSIONS OF AN X ABORTIONIST outlined how Jews duped Protestant groups to side with them against the Pro Life Catholic position, ultimately succeeding in passing Roe V Wade and killing off 53 Million Babies.
Youre a Hypocrite and a terrible disinfo liar, Clefty.
[/quote]
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline WaltDisney

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You claim the pope is ruler of the world Walt....think about it...all the wealth of the world is his...

The Vatican Does NOT Print Fiat Currency you moron.That is the new wealth as of today.



and as you claim he has the keys to the kingdom...now that's even more gold...
Whatever..


 

this crisis...is it the fault of the Holy Spirit?...did Peter look away?...is the virgin Mary sleeping?...
Its the fault of men, free will  and Jews who corrupt.



this crises means God abandoned His church?...
Of course not, nothing new in 1700 years. The struggle resumes.



you judge me? ha ha ha...you are the one eating Christ's body and cannibalizing when He meant it as a metaphor...wow
You ask for literal proof, and use the argument when it suits you, such as in 'Sabbath worship' but now call it a metaphor when it IS literal?  One cannot please a Hypocrite.
 Following GODs word is 'cannibalizing' now?



 But His Father commanded
"But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat." Genesis 9:4



"... No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood." Leviticus 17:12    

Christ would never contradict His Father's Law...
You are countering New Testament with OLD testament.
You just contradicted CHRIST by Superceding HIS word with Old Testament. Old Testament malarchy, the Old which is Dead.
He Fulfilled The Old, it is Invalidated,  put on your Yamalka and do the hora if you wish.



but now I am confused because He says "out the heart of any who believe will flow rivers of living water"...that's alot of water...I've never seen it literally before...


Youre confused about alot of things, Jews often are.



He also says He is the Light...why did they bring torches to find Him in the garden at night?
More Jew talk on his Vigil of his crucifixion, what a sport you are, you Heretic.



 "How can this Man give His flesh to eat? John 6:52

And were soon set straight by Christ in his reply to them.

and when He saw that even His disciples were confused HE CLARIFIED "Does this offend you?...IT IS THE SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING"
oh and

"THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK TO YOU ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE"...John 6:62-63

but you insist its LITERALLY HIS BODY...wow...YOU WANT TO EAT JESUS and I am no Christian?...ha ha ha

so its literally blood being consumed on a supposedly bloodless sacrifice event...ha ha ha...
Its the remission of His blood and the unbloody sacrifice that atones for sins and transgressions.  Jews dont understand this.



 and? does it say we kill JOOS or put them in cages? NO WE LOVE OUR ENEMIES
'You are of Your Father the Devil'  It is for their safety and our safety that they are excluded from society and separated.
That is Loving..



 expelling? or spreading them around to mix into all of europe...
When a group is expelled they will mix into other locales, this cannot be prevented unless they are put on an island.
Im fine with Madagascar or Corsica.


YOUR CHURCH WAS AND IS A TOOL FOR JOOS WALT...AND STILL PROTECTS THEM
Prots & heretics sometimes make this claim but they themselves have no track record.
We have 1800 years of action, they have inaction.  Heaven knows we tried to keep the world safe from them, as did another Catholic aka Hitler.


« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 06:29:44 AM by WaltDisney »
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline FrankDialogue

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These long-term con-cycles work because trust is built up so the masses can be fleeced, and no one alive generally would have any experience of the last time that trust was burnt.

You need to be on an NPR/PBS panel...At least there would have been some straight talk...But you would make Judy Woodruff nervous.


Offline clefty

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These guys make the monsters invading Gaza look like boy scouts at hazing parties....

Gen. Sherman in a June 21, 1864, letter to Lincoln's Sec. of War, Edwin Station wrote, "There is a class of people men, women and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order."

a professor at Loyola College in Baltimore and historian and writer, tells us that Sherman once wrote to his wife that his purpose was the "extermination, not of soldiers alone...but of the people" of the South...
http://www.plpow.com/Atrocities_QuotesFromSherman.htm

Sheridan and Sherman were both catholics...

well schooled in the total war concept of the crusades...



oh and  Longstreet who contributed to the southern body count... converted to catholism after he betrayed the south...

any jooish generals? intent on maximizing southern deaths?...

naw..merely funding southern suicidal aspirations seems more like it...



see Walt?

I am on topic and critical of Joos too...

but because you boo hooed about me reminding readers of the catholic role in the dividing of america

 I moved my other answers to you to the another thread which was started by moderators because you complained about me...

The one I pointed out that the current middle east strife was also not just JOOS.....

http://www.freedomportal.net/index.php?topic=20621.0
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 07:05:01 PM by clefty »

Offline WaltDisney

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These guys make the monsters invading Gaza look like boy scouts at hazing parties....

Gen. Sherman in a June 21, 1864, letter to Lincoln's Sec. of War, Edwin Station wrote, "There is a class of people men, women and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order."

a professor at Loyola College in Baltimore and historian and writer, tells us that Sherman once wrote to his wife that his purpose was the "extermination, not of soldiers alone...but of the people" of the South...
http://www.plpow.com/Atrocities_QuotesFromSherman.htm

Sheridan and Sherman were both catholics...

well schooled in the total war concept of the crusades...



oh and  Longstreet who contributed to the southern body count... converted to catholism after he betrayed the south...

any jooish generals? intent on maximizing southern deaths?...

naw..merely funding southern suicidal aspirations seems more like it...



see Walt?

I am on topic and critical of Joos too...

but because you boo hooed about me reminding readers of the catholic role in the dividing of america

 I moved my other answers to you to the another thread which was started by moderators because you complained about me...

The one I pointed out that the current middle east strife was also not just JOOS.....

http://www.freedomportal.net/index.php?topic=20621.0

'He was baptized a Catholic, he married a Catholic, his children were raised Catholic (one became a Jesuit), and he’s buried in a Catholic cemetery in St. Louis. (Here he’s seen in the front pew of St. Aloysius Church, Washington, D.C., at his daughter Minnie’s wedding in 1874.) But he never considered himself Catholic.

The story told by Sherman biographer John Marzalek is that when William was born Tecumseh Sherman in 1820. When his father died, at age nine he went to live with his neighbors, the Ewings, who were Catholic.
Mrs. Ewing insisted on his being baptized Catholic, and she got a priest to baptized him on the Feast day of St. William. Hence the name, William Tecumseh Sherman. But he never took it seriously and he was not at all religious.

 Ellen Ewing, his wife (and foster sister), was an extremely devout woman involved in a myriad of Church causes, much to her husband’s chagrin. When his son Tom decided to join the Jesuits, he was disappointed.
He wanted Tom to become a lawyer, and he never reconciled himself to his son’s decision. Yet he did have a Catholic funeral and was buried in St. Louis’ Calvary Cemetery. Begrudgingly, one thinks.



Superficially Sherman was a Catholic the way Bob Hope was: most nominally, having been baptized, married and buried in the Church.
But if you dig deeper, things get more interesting.
His son Thomas claimed that WT was actually an observant, church-going Catholic up till the Civil War (when Sherman had a breakdown or episode of madness and despair). Sherman's refusal to run for President occurred in an era when anti-Catholicism was a linchpin of many Republican platforms.
(James G. Blaine, for example, is mostly remembered for his anti-Catholic stance even though he was raised in a Catholic family and had a sister who was a nun.) This makes me wonder if the "Shermanesque refusal" really had something to do with disgust over sectarian politics.

When Sherman died, and received Extreme Unction followed by a Catholic funeral and burial, there was great outcry among anti-Catholic divines and journalists: "their" great general was being co-opted by the Popish interests because the Sherman family had somehow been seduced by wily Rome.
On a lighter note: Sherman was not originally named merely "Tecumseh" and then baptized William; that was an early biographer's error.'



You can do better than this Clefty..

Its an insult to any intelligent person to read your crap.

Protestants and Jews have wrecked far more blood and havoc in the world than Catholics.
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline WaltDisney

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any jooish generals? intent on maximizing southern deaths?...

naw..merely funding southern suicidal aspirations seems more like it...


http://www.freedomportal.net/index.php?topic=20621.0

Lots of Jewish Generals, youre just not interested in reporting them, or have an agenda.
the latter in this case..

In the North, the record shows that there were many Jewish officers: 8 were generals, 21 colonels, 9 lieutenant colonels, 40 majors, 205 captains, 325 lieutenants, 48 adjutants and 25 surgeons.



Lincoln's Jewish generals

By Herb Geduld


http://www.jewishworldreview.com -- AT the beginning of the Civil War in 1861, the United States Army was pitifully small.

It consisted of 1,108 officers and 15,269 enlisted men.
Of the thousand-odd officers, more than a third resigned their posts to join the Confederacy. To lead the millions of men who ultimately fought in the Civil War would take a lot of generals, and ultimately more than 1000 were appointed by the Union alone. Of these, at least seven were Jewish.


The Jewish generals in the Union Army were not well-known and almost have been lost from the history books. The highest ranking Jewish officer in the Union Army was Hungarian-born Major General Frederick Knefler.
He was commander of the 79th Indiana regiment. Knefler was promoted to brigadier general for his performance at the Battle of Chickamauga and then to major general during his service with Sherman on his march through Georgia.

Leopold Blumenberg was a lieutenant in the Prussian Army in 1848. Because of antisemitism he immigrated to the United States in 1854.
An avowed abolitionist, he narrowly escaped lynching by a secessionist mob in Baltimore in early April 1861. With the start of the war, Blumenberg helped organize the Maryland Volunteer Regiment and fought with it in the Peninsular campaign.

He was severely wounded in the Battle of Antietam in 1862, and subsequently was appointed a brevet brigadier general. A brevet military appointment is a commission usually granted as an honor, carrying the rank of the new office but without an increase in pay or authority. Many officers were given brevet commissions during the Civil War.

There were actually two ways of being appointed a general during this period. The first was through politics, where men were appointed because of their political influence rather than their military ability. Most of these "generals" proved to be costly misfits for the Union forces. The second method of assuming a general's office was through winning their stars on the battlefield by superior performance.
Fortunately, all the Jewish generals described here attained their high rank through the latter procedure.

One Jewish officer who only made it to general's rank posthumously was Lieutenant Colonel Leopold Newman of New York. He distinguished himself at the First Battle of Bull Run, which was a defeat for the Union. Newman was subsequently severely wounded at the Battle of Chancellorsville in 1863, and he died in a Washington hospital before President Abraham Lincoln could present him with a commission to brigadier general.

Perhaps the most notable of the Jewish generals was Edward S. Salomon of Illinois. Salomon emigrated from Germany to Chicago in 1854, where he became a law clerk and a minor functionary in the newly formed Republican Party. He was elected to the Chicago City Council at the age of 24, the youngest member of that body.

With the outbreak of the Civil War, Salomon enlisted in the 25th Illinois Infantry as a second lieutenant and won quick promotions for battlefield bravery.
At Gettysburg in 1863, he was colonel in command of the 82nd Illinois Volunteer Infantry, which had over 100 Jewish personnel.
His unit fought at Cemetery Ridge and was one of the principal Union forces which successfully repulsed Pickett's charge. Salomon received a commendation for bravery and was breveted a brigadier general.

Salomon served with General Sherman in the Battle for Atlanta and was cited as "one of the most deserving officers." After the war he led his men in a six-hour victory parade in Washington D.C., a commanding general at the age of 29.

President Ulysses S. Grant recognized Salomon's administrative capabilities and, in 1869, appointed him as governor of the Territory of Washington, where he served with distinction for four years. After leaving his post, Salomon settled in San Francisco. He was the district attorney of San Francisco County and twice served in the California legislature, devoting most of his life to public service.

Brigadier General Alfred Mordechai graduated from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point in 1861, following in his father's footsteps. He joined the Army of Northeastern Virginia and received high commendations for his conduct at the Battle of Bull Run. He became the chief ordnance officer in several Union regiments and, in 1865, was appointed instructor of ordnance at West Point.

Among the other Jewish generals in the Union forces were Phineas Horowitz of Baltimore, who was appointed surgeon general of the Navy during the war, and General William Meyer of New York, who received a letter of thanks from President Lincoln for his efforts during the New York draft riots.
There were no Jewish generals with the Confederate forces during the Civil War, but that's another tale'


Big surprise there, Jews wanted the South destroyed, to 'Federalize' them..
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 07:45:29 PM by WaltDisney »
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline clefty

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When Sherman died, and received Extreme Unction followed by a Catholic funeral and burial

extreme unction? ha ha ha....that's rich...so he was not anathema nor excommunicated...

he remained catholic and recieved the church's blessing....

and as for the evil he did...the pope and the virgin mary will clean that up right?

body counts are necessary in holy crusades for the church...this time it was in the south

Offline clefty

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aaah yes...the JOOOS

thanks for posting this...how could I forget...

Quote
Of these, at least seven were Jewish.
ok here we go...


Quote
Major General Frederick Knefler.
He was commander of the 79th Indiana regiment. Knefler then to major general during his service with Sherman on his march through Georgia.
ha ha ha...

Quote
Leopold Blumenberg .
An avowed abolitionist, he narrowly escaped lynching by a secessionist mob in Baltimore in early April 1861.
Maryland is catholic no?

Quote
One Jewish officer who only made it to general's rank posthumously was Lieutenant Colonel Leopold Newman of New York. He distinguished himself at the First Battle of Bull Run, which was a defeat for the Union.
hmmmm...

Quote
Edward Salomon served with General Sherman in the Battle for Atlanta and was cited as "one of the most deserving officers."
what another one? have you seen the pictures of atlanta...looks like dresden...


Quote
Brigadier General Alfred Mordechai graduated from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point in 1861, following in his father's footsteps. He joined the Army of Northeastern Virginia and received high commendations for his conduct at the Battle of Bull Run.
HMMMMM....

Quote
Among the other Jewish generals in the Union forces were Phineas Horowitz of Baltimore
Baltimore MARYland no?

Catholics and JOOS together....where have I seen this before?....


Quote
Big surprise there, Jews wanted the South destroyed, to 'Federalize' them..

and who else is behind the FED?

Offline thomaspain

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Prots, Heretics, Cryptos and Judaized Prots do it at will, and why there are 35,000 Prot Sects today, none can agree on anything.

   Protestantism is an odd affair. Reforming the abuses in a church by breaking away is the story of Christianity. Originally Christians were Jews who adopted the then revolutionary teachings of Christ. The Apostles went their ways to spread the revised Judaic teachings. They believed Christ's word that said he only came to save the Jews. They were prepared to accept non-Jews into their protestant fellowship only if they became Judaic converts. This was Apostolic Christianity. Jim Jones Saul/Paul arose with his newer protestant brand of Judaic Christianity. He no longer required full conversion to Judaism requiring circumcision. As a Roman citizen he was able to take his fellowship to Rome. There it converted those in Rome who were in effect protestants of the so called pagan religions. Some of the Apostles felt that his teachings were heretical. Some went along with him for their own private reasons. There were now two branches of protestant Judaism, Apostolic Christianity and Pauline/Roman Christianity. Jewish Judaic authority was overthrown and the Christianities became independent of it. The first 300 years of Christianity were chaotic with each of a multitude of groups striving for dominance of the growing fellowships. They were shameful and terrible times and in practice unChristian. Study of this period was later discouraged. Then with political aid, Roman Christianity unified and the Roman Catholic Church became dominant. In time the Church became corrupt as Judaism had in Christ's time and new prophets arose. They hatched newer protestant sects. This kept repeating itself until the number of protestant sects of one type or another are in the tens of thousands.

   This could be looked at as a tree with its branches multiplying and reaching Heavenward. It would seem positively holy if it were not polluted by the financial incentives and aspects of the religion industry.  All religions are seeing a decline in membership. Part of this is due to design by the Jews. Most of it is due to faults in the major religions. This decline could be for the later good. In the future, we could see some serious preaching coming out of the storefront churches of the bankrupt sects.
 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 09:25:35 PM by thomaspain »

Offline WaltDisney

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   Protestantism is an odd affair. Reforming the abuses in a church by breaking away is the story of Christianity.
Reform is one thing, Revolution is quite another.
Luther, with Jewry, Split Christendom and led his followers on a path to Hell, denying the Eucharist and other Sacraments.
He Mistranslated into the vulgate the word of GOD, and started this crisis, inventing the word JEW in the 2nd printing of the Sodomite Queer King James Bible edition.

Then with political aid, Roman Christianity unified and the Roman Catholic Church became dominant. In time the Church became corrupt as Judaism had in Christ's time and new prophets arose. They hatched newer protestant sects. This kept repeating itself until the number of protestant sects of one type or another are in the tens of thousands.
This is Jew speak, no offense.
Corruption means Jews arent happy with the status quo.
My goodness, history records that nations were never as happy or as prosperous than when the Church ruled. 
Soon after the Reformation Revolution, it was destruction, Usury, Debtors prison and divorce.



   This could be looked at as a tree with its branches multiplying and reaching Heavenward. It would seem positively holy if it were not polluted by the financial incentives and aspects of the religion industry.
 All religions are seeing a decline in membership. Part of this is due to design by the Jews. Most of it is due to faults in the major religions. This decline could be for the later good.
There are few finanical incentives for the Church, 90% of donations actually go towards Charity.
In the Dominican and Fransiscan orders, there is a vow of poverty.
They essentially live like monks. Theres no other way.
Originally, it was done to combat the Jew, who bribed and blackmailed his way to subvert.



"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline WaltDisney

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ok here we go...

 ha ha ha...
 Maryland is catholic no?
 hmmmm...
 what another one? have you seen the pictures of atlanta...looks like dresden...

 HMMMMM....
 Baltimore MARYland no?

Catholics and JOOS together....where have I seen this before?....


and who else is behind the FED?

Youve contradicted yourself so many times Ive lost count.
Rome supported the SOUTH.
Yet you want us to believe that the NORTH was led By Catholics..

Now when I point out your errant position of no supposed Jews leading as generals, you jump ship.  More Talmudic Jew speak.

Rome backed the South, as they knew what the Jew led North was up to, in terms of consolidating power to usurp states rights, ultimately bring a Federalized Central Bank/ power to issue fiat fractional reserve notes ala 1913.
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline clefty

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Youve contradicted yourself so many times Ive lost count.
you have lost more than count silly man

Quote
Rome supported the SOUTH.
Ha ha ha...and I thought it was the JOOOS who wanted to destroy america...

Quote
Yet you want us to believe that the NORTH was led By Catholics..
well that depends if you consider JOOsuit freemasonry catholic....I DO...

and then there were these two catholic crusading generals and their JOOISH side kicks doing what they have done throughout history as partners...crusade and destroy

Quote
Now when I point out your errant position of no supposed Jews leading as generals, you jump ship. More Talmudic Jew speak.


ha ha ha...these joos came from catholic north and LOST a major battle for the North and assisted nrothern atrocities done by catholics...

I wouldnt be surprised if those JOOS sabatoged the north at BULL RUN..

Quote
Rome backed the South,
Yes which you would have gladly avoided if I hadnt started this...

you wouldnt want to reveal the desire of rome to undermine america would you?

 glad you can admit that besides screeching JOO JOO JOO...

Quote
as they knew what the Jew led North was up to,
of course they knew JOOS and catholics have always been partners you silly man...

Quote
in terms of consolidating power to usurp states rights, ultimately bring a Federalized Central Bank/ power to issue fiat fractional reserve notes ala 1913

um right and the vatican has nothing to do with the federal reserve?...ha ha ha...

and has NO experience stealing, I mean acquiring, wealth

its just the JOOOOOS....

no its not you silly silly man....

after all JOOS and Catholics never got along right Walt?

as you said Rome supported the south...

cant let protestants get too big ya know...just big enough to take the heat...and hide behind...ha ha ha

thanks for the fun
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 08:41:57 PM by clefty »

Offline clefty

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The Vatican Does NOT Print Fiat Currency you moron.That is the new wealth as of today.

ha ha ha...Maybe not currency  but they have something even better...INDULGENCES

you do understand what FIAT means right Walt?

fi·at
–noun
1. an authoritative decree, sanction, or order: a royal fiat.
2. a formula containing the word fiat, by which a person in authority gives sanction.
3. an arbitrary decree or pronouncement, especially by a person or group of persons having absolute authority to enforce it: The king ruled by fiat.

your church perfected the deception of fiat by demanding people's REAL gold for a FIAT peice of paper with fancy wording and a pretty seal

this PAPER bought with gold or labor or who knows what...guaranteed the purchaser's grandmother 10 years less in purgatory
 
or for even more gold why the church would DECLARE grandma in heaven...

your corporate state "sold" for real gold or land or labor relics artifacts blessed trinkets and other such  idols to desperate believers with a FIAT declaring its authenticity...

How many nails which crucified christ were sold in such manner?

This was only one way your church became the financial power it is...

your corporate state IS FIAT and has no basis in scripture...but cowered people into believing it and thus accept the peice of paper which stipulated this authority

and so to keep this even more on topic

when Lincoln decided to declare his own FIAT with greenbacks...the vatican monopoly had to be protected and he was assissinated...

payback included for

"In 1855, he (Charles Chiniquy)was sued by a prominent Catholic layman named Peter Spink in Kankakee, Illinois. After the fall court term, Spink applied for a change of venue to the court in Urbana. Abraham Lincoln was then hired by Chiniquy to defend him. The spring court action in Urbana was the highest profile libel suit in Lincoln’s career. [2]
...
Chiniquy claimed that he was falsely accused by his superiors (and that Abraham Lincoln had come to his rescue), that the American Civil War was a plot against the United States of America by the Vatican, and that the Vatican was behind the Confederate cause, the death of President Lincoln and that Lincoln's assassins were faithful Roman Catholics ultimately serving Pope Pius IX"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Chiniquy

Thank GOD Lincoln was warned by Chiniquy and saw America's true enemy...which was the Vatican backed bankers...who well understand what FIAT is



Offline WaltDisney

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ha ha ha...Maybe not currency  but they have something even better...INDULGENCES

you do understand what FIAT means right Walt?

fi·at
–noun
1. an authoritative decree, sanction, or order: a royal fiat.
2. a formula containing the word fiat, by which a person in authority gives sanction.
3. an arbitrary decree or pronouncement, especially by a person or group of persons having absolute authority to enforce it: The king ruled by fiat.

your church perfected the deception of fiat by demanding people's REAL gold for a FIAT peice of paper with fancy wording and a pretty seal

this PAPER bought with gold or labor or who knows what...guaranteed the purchaser's grandmother 10 years less in purgatory
 
or for even more gold why the church would DECLARE grandma in heaven...

your corporate state "sold" for real gold or land or labor relics artifacts blessed trinkets and other such  idols to desperate believers with a FIAT declaring its authenticity...

How many nails which crucified christ were sold in such manner?

This was only one way your church became the financial power it is...

your corporate state IS FIAT and has no basis in scripture...but cowered people into believing it and thus accept the peice of paper which stipulated this authority

and so to keep this even more on topic

when Lincoln decided to declare his own FIAT with greenbacks...the vatican monopoly had to be protected and he was assissinated...

payback included for

"In 1855, he (Charles Chiniquy)was sued by a prominent Catholic layman named Peter Spink in Kankakee, Illinois. After the fall court term, Spink applied for a change of venue to the court in Urbana. Abraham Lincoln was then hired by Chiniquy to defend him. The spring court action in Urbana was the highest profile libel suit in Lincoln’s career. [2]
...
Chiniquy claimed that he was falsely accused by his superiors (and that Abraham Lincoln had come to his rescue), that the American Civil War was a plot against the United States of America by the Vatican, and that the Vatican was behind the Confederate cause, the death of President Lincoln and that Lincoln's assassins were faithful Roman Catholics ultimately serving Pope Pius IX"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Chiniquy

Thank GOD Lincoln was warned by Chiniquy and saw America's true enemy...which was the Vatican backed bankers...who well understand what FIAT is

Losing the arguement, change the topic..?  Another Circular Jew argument.

You desperately compare indulgences to Jew Central Bankers and Fiat fractional reserve, which never had a history in the Church for 1700 years and which was condemned.


Catholics dont control printing presses of nations or nations currencies, Jews do.
Catholics dont control any fiat presses, even in Vatican city.
Jews have for centuries.
Separation of Church and State is a Jew masonic  utopia to allow them free reign to loot, enslave, steal and murder.


'And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord?
And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.'
Acts 10:4
Quote
"An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven" (Indulgentarium Doctrina 1, emphasis added). Indulgences in no way forgive sins. They deal only with punishments left after sins have been forgiven.

"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church"
(Col. 1:24).

Even though Christ’s sufferings were superabundant, Paul spoke of completing what was "lacking" in Christ’s sufferings.
'





Next
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 05:23:48 AM by WaltDisney »
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline WaltDisney

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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/PUV_HvF6PdA" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/PUV_HvF6PdA</a>

Google:
'The shocking role of the Jews in the slave trade'- and cross reference all info for your own satisfaction.





<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/j8UPKyDHAGY" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/j8UPKyDHAGY</a>

During the Civil War era in America, Judah Benjamin played a substantial role in politics.
He was a U.S. senator, Confederate attorney general, Secretary of War, and Secretary of State.
He was accused of plotting with Davis in the Lincoln assassination and with involvement in a Canadian spy ring against the Union.


..In France, the Dreyfus Affair, far from epitomizing French anti-Judaism, demonstrates the sway of Jewish influence over the French government; the charges of treason against an obscure French artillery captain would have been of no international significance had he not been Jewish.
 Thus, it was precisely because he was Jewish that this incident attracted international prominence and was ultimately brought about the transformation of France from a Catholic Christian State into a secular state.

The secularisation of France was a seismic political event that repercussions are still felt today, the European Union is very much moulded on French secularism; it is also a significant factor in the birth of fascism and communism, as well being a contributory factor in the Russian revolution.
Therefore it a measure of Jewish influence in France that secularisation (the biggest constitutional change in French history since the 1789 revolution) arose out the protestations of Jews and Jewish sympathisers.

In France, as elsewhere in Europe, secularisation of the state was strongly advocated by prominent Jews, who wished to decapitate the influence of the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, organisations which diametrically opposed to Judaism and the influence and socio-political integration of Jewry.
The Dreyfus Affair, rather than being the catalysis for political Judaism and secularisation was a pretext for it. Dreyfus' innocence or guilt was never significant to either side; it was a straight forward power struggle between the Catholic Church and the French army on one side and Jews and secularism on the other: Jews and secularism clearly won.

In 1893, Alfred Dreyfus, a Captain in the French artillery, assigned to the general staff in Paris, was charged with treason. He was accused of having been the author of an anonymous bordereau containing a list of secret French military documents that were scheduled for delivery to the German Embassy in Paris.
In 1894 Dreyfus was found guilty by a court-martial, reduced in rank, and transported to Devil's Island, where he was to be imprisoned for the rest of his life..." (Years later, Dreyfus was found innocent of any wrongdoing. He was the scapegoat in a larger plan.)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 05:24:35 AM by WaltDisney »
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline WaltDisney

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Our entire economic system is built upon a practice that was condemned as immoral by the Church for 1700+ years.


The last authoritative Magisterial statement on usury was offered in 1745.
It is the encyclical Vix Pervenit of Pope Benedict XIV.
(It was also apparently condemned in the Decretals of Gregory IX, way back in 1234)

It is the most recent statement of the Magisterium on usury and it seems to explode most of the current apologetic arguments regarding the nature of that teaching. It states:

I. The nature of the sin called usury has its proper place and origin in a loan contract. This financial contract between consenting parties demands, by its very nature, that one return to another only as much as he has received.
The sin rests on the fact that sometimes the creditor desires more than he has given. Therefore he contends some gain is owed him beyond that which he loaned, but any gain which exceeds the amount he gave is illicit and usurious.


II. One cannot condone the sin of usury by arguing that the gain is not great or excessive, but rather moderate or small; neither can it be condoned by arguing that the borrower is rich; nor even by arguing that the money borrowed is not left idle, but is spent usefully, either to increase one's fortune, to purchase new estates, or to engage in business transactions. The law governing loans consists necessarily in the equality of what is given and returned; once the equality has been established, whoever demands more than that violates the terms of the loan.'



(So much for arguments that the Magisterium now teaches usury only means "exhorbitant" interest or interest on non-profitable loans (which still wouldn't allow for most credit card usage, by the way).
Vix Pervenit, the most recent teaching specifically addresses and condemns both those arguments, as well as arguments to the effect that "times have changed and the nature of the money/the economy is different now." Rather, it states:

'We exhort you not to listen to those who say that today the issue of usury is present in name only, since gain is almost always obtained from money given to another....it is clearly invalid to suggest, on the grounds that some gain is usually received from money lent out, that the issue of usury is irrelevant in our times.'




St. Thomas Aquinas lays this out in his Summa Theologica

"It would seem that it is not lawful to borrow money under a condition of usury. For the Apostle says (Romans 1:32) that they "are worthy of death . . . not only they that do" these sins, "but they also that consent to them that do them." Now he that borrows money under a condition of usury consents in the sin of the usurer, and gives him an occasion of sin. Therefore he sins also."



Canon 13 of the Second Lateran Council (1139) says:
"Furthermore we condemn that practice accounted despicable and blame worthy by divine and human laws, denounced by Scripture in the Old and New Testaments, namely, the ferocious greed of usurers; and we sever them from every comfort of the Church, forbidding any archbishop or bishop, or an abbot of any order whatever or anyone in clerical orders, to dare to receive usurers, unless they do so with extreme caution; but let them be held infamous throughout their whole lives and, unless they repent, be deprived of a Christian burial."


Session X of the Fifth Lateran Council (1515) gave its exact meaning:
"For that is the real meaning of usury: when, from its use, a thing which produces nothing is applied to the acquiring of gain and profit without any work, any expense or any risk."


So too, Pope Benedict XIV in his encyclical Vix Pervenit, says:
"The nature of the sin called usury has its proper place and origin in a loan contract [mutuum]. This financial contract between consenting parties demands, by its very nature, that one return to another only as much as he has received.
The sin rests on the fact that sometimes the creditor desires more than he has given. Therefore he contends some gain is owed him beyond that which he loaned, but any gain which exceeds the amount he gave is illicit and usurious."
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 05:56:33 AM by WaltDisney »
"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline jacob gold

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Jews were behind the civil war  .... that's what they do  ..... divide and conquer (nee' steal)

Offline clefty

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Losing the arguement, change the topic..?
ha ha ha...losing? Hardly...having you concede the pope was behind the destruction of america is not losing....

revealing that JOOS in the north came from catholic north and assisted catholic war crimes by the north is hardly losing...(oh and since ya'll be claiming JOOS be doing everthing its telling there were no JOOISH generals in the south)
 
and proving Lincoln himself understood the vatican was behind this civil war to destroy america is not losing or changing the topic...

Quote
Another Circular Jew argument
ha ha ha...it works...they run your church


Quote
You desperately compare indulgences to Jew Central Bankers and Fiat fractional reserve,
FIAT is fiat...church declares value based on false claims...just like the vatican FED...

Quote
Catholics dont control printing presses of nations or nations currencies, Jews do.
the pope is ruler of the world right?

Quote
Catholics dont control any fiat presses, even in Vatican city.
Jews have for centuries.
besides coinage and stamps the currency of the church is absolution...

Quote
Separation of Church and State is a Jew masonic utopia to allow them free reign to loot, enslave, steal and murder.
as if the church needed any help with that...

Quote
'And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord?
And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.'
Acts 10:4

and? and when you read verse 2 you see he gave his alms generously TO THE PEOPLE  not TO THE CHURCH?
Indulgences are given to the church...not the people
and about the evil practice of FIAT
here's what Peter clearly says...
Acts 8:18-20
18. Now when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
19. saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.''
20. But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!"

Mercy is a gift...and not any amount of money can purchase absolution from the penalty and punishment of sin...

as if you can bribe God...
the church easily but not GOD..

we can only forgive sins not absolve them as if they never occured ONLY God can do that...

if you do the crime only God can reduce the time...

sin has its own consequences...

Quote
"An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven" (Indulgentarium Doctrina 1, emphasis added). Indulgences in no way forgive sins. They deal only with punishments left after sins have been forgiven.

I understand you can reduce your punishment by actually reading the bible for more than half an hour...ha ha ha...

again, mercy can not be bought...Christ' mercy is a gift to those who believe..kinda like Sabbath...

Quote
"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church" (Col. 1:24).
that's the text you twist to support indulgences?...even Christ's death does not reduce the consequence of sin...which is death...we all must die...
but in Christ we dont the second time forever
Quote
Even though Christ’s sufferings were superabundant, Paul spoke of completing what was "lacking" in Christ’s sufferings.
and JOOS are circular? ha ha ha
Paul speaks of his temporal declaraton of faith, service, stewardship as completeing the sacrifice of Christ..NOT MONEY...wow

Offline clefty

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Our entire economic system is built upon a practice that was condemned as immoral by the Church for 1700+ years.

Usury is forbidden in the Old Testament...and?

So the church sold mercy and other deceptions....and made countless wealth

going on crusades was one of the best indulgences...

the participating individual did penance and the church got loot...a real win win...

kinda like the vatican FED...