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Offline Sue

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* Obituary – Very Interesting
« on: September 20, 2011, 08:25:21 AM »
Apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom...

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In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinborough, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.”

           
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years.

           During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

           From bondage to spiritual faith;
           From spiritual faith to great courage;
           From courage to liberty;
           From liberty to abundance;
           From abundance to complacency;
           From complacency to apathy;
           From apathy to dependence;
           From dependence back into bondage.”

           The Obituary follows:

           Born 1776, Died 2012

           

           It doesn’t hurt to read this several times.

           Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota,
           points out some interesting facts concerning the last Presidential election:

           Number of States won by: Obama: 19 McCain: 29
           Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000 McCain: 2,427,000
           Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million McCain: 143 million
           Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Obama: 13.2
           McCain: 2.1

           Professor Olson adds: “In aggregate, the map of the territory McCain won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.

Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low income tenements and living off various forms of government welfare…”

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the “complacency and apathy” phase of Professor Tyler’s definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation’s population already having reached the “governmental dependency” phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegal’s – and they vote – then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

This is truly scary! Of course we are not a democracy, we are a Constitutional Republic . Someone should point this out to Obama. Of course we know he and too many others pay little attention to The Constitution.

           There couldn’t be more at stake than on Nov 2012.

           FOUR PRINCIPLES THAT DEFINE TRUE CONSERVATISM:


           1. Respect for The Constitution

           2. Respect for Life

           3. The Smallest Possible Government

           4. Individual Responsibility
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline AngelOfLight

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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2011, 08:42:05 AM »
Good article, I only want to point out that Roman Empire was the only one that survived more then 200 years, 2000 in fact! This was do to the fact that it was a homogeneous society and the high moral values that was given to the family, parents had total control of their kids, they couldn't even get married with out the permission of their parents! It fell when the racial, religious and ideological make of it changed!
Judge me if you're with out sin!

Offline FrankDialogue

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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2011, 09:08:11 AM »
Good article, I only want to point out that Roman Empire was the only one that survived more then 200 years, 2000 in fact! This was do to the fact that it was a homogeneous society and the high moral values that was given to the family, parents had total control of their kids, they couldn't even get married with out the permission of their parents! It fell when the racial, religious and ideological make of it changed!

Actually, the Roman Empire was far from homogenous, and this led to it's ultimate downfall.

However, the Romans did contribute much to civilization, in terms of organization, engineering, and, yes, family values, primarily among the privileged classes...And yes, when the Empire tried to integrate various more primitive groups into their civilization, the problems began.

In fact, the Romans serve as a good example of what happens to a civilization when it 'over reaches'...Kind of like current day 'empires' (both British and US).

Offline AngelOfLight

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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2011, 09:31:04 AM »
Actually, the Roman Empire was far from homogenous, and this led to it's ultimate downfall.

However, the Romans did contribute much to civilization, in terms of organization, engineering, and, yes, family values, primarily among the privileged classes...And yes, when the Empire tried to integrate various more primitive groups into their civilization, the problems began.

In fact, the Romans serve as a good example of what happens to a civilization when it 'over reaches'...Kind of like current day 'empires' (both British and US).

Please elaborate Frank which parts of the empire weren't part of the same family? I already stated that the down fall of Rome came as a result of change in the racial, religious an ideological make of the empire.
Judge me if you're with out sin!

Offline FrankDialogue

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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 10:08:36 AM »
Please elaborate Frank which parts of the empire weren't part of the same family? I already stated that the down fall of Rome came as a result of change in the racial, religious an ideological make of the empire.

Sure...Germany, Turkey, Palestine, Arabia, Syria, Persia, the various 'Huns' or Turkic tribes that constantly moved into Europe and gradually encroached upon the Empire...Rome would fight with these particular groups for a time, but since you can't be constantly at war, they would, at some point, seek to integrate them...North Africans also.

Here is good simple website about Roman history, and the ancient inhabitants of the Italian peninsula, basically three tribes who became the 'Romans':

http://www.roman-colosseum.info/roman-empire/ancient-history-of-italy.htm

Offline Sue

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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2011, 12:31:35 PM »
Good article, I only want to point out that Roman Empire was the only one that survived more then 200 years, 2000 in fact! This was do to the fact that it was a homogeneous society and the high moral values that was given to the family, parents had total control of their kids, they couldn't even get married with out the permission of their parents! It fell when the racial, religious and ideological make of it changed!

The key word is ''homogenous''!

Human Role in Society & Community Culture Models
What are the Perfect Society's Roles & Rights & Values

No one can deny the role of society because when you were born automatically you became the part of the society; your thinking & life style reflects that society. The role of the society is tremendously important for the development of a nation and of course for the entire world as a whole.

If you do not know that role of society properly you will never grow up as a perfect citizen and eventually you will fail to evolve you true human man value; though it is very much possible to be successful financially without the perfect understanding of society. Before discussing the role of society it needs to be clarified what we actually mean by society. A society is a large group of people living in a place or in a country under the control of same laws and culture in general.

The society of a country can be further divided in terms of religion, ethnicity, financial status, profession, interest etc. There can be many division in a society but as an individual you are part of a human society which is your true and unique identity, which on one can take out from you and this society must ensure the balanced growth of the future generation, which requires a society to play some role and like you, I also need to help the society to play its role.

Major role of society

    Social responsibility
    Religious responsibility
    Financial responsibility
    Political responsibility

I did not want to make this hub a lengthy one that’s why I just mentioned four important role a society has to play and as a physical entity of society if you keep remember the four major roles, then I hope we may get rid of many existing conflicts and problems.

Your family is the key element of your society; so the very first place where society plays its role is your home.

Social role

    Be attentive to all the complains of its members.
    Show respect to everyone’s view.
    Participating in social meeting.
    Listening to the problems of young minds with care.
    be more active about environment issues.

Religious responsibility

    Showing respect for all the religions of a society
    Cordial relationships between different religious leaders
    Creating a good understanding among all the religious groups.

Financial responsibility

    Financial, industrial and business people need to work together in order to maintain a sound financial stability.
    Show economical resilience during the financial crisis of a country and co-ordinate with the government.
    Encouraging youth entrepreneurships though various financial plans and packages.

Political responsibility

    Choosing the true leader of the country
    In case you are unsatisfied with the performance of any leader, express it non-violent way.
    Co-ordinate with government to fight against all the national problems.
    Contribute to governmental fund in time of needs
    Pay tax properly.

The question may arise how to contribute in shaping the society. As a part of the civil society you, me or even the head of government is responsible to make sure that every aspect of society function well. For common people it’s important to remain united by joining in local or national level forums and organizations-no matter which way you choose to stay connected with all other members of the society the motto is to stay honest and make your true voice heard for the betterment of our life.

As we all are integral part of the world society we all have to make sure that our own society performs well and sticks to the basic needs of a thriving society.We should not forget how many people have sacrificed their lives for the improvement of the society-why they had to sacrifice-because society simply  failed to play its true role. It’s time to be united as a true human society-keep us united for greater purpose is the major role of society.
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Sue

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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2011, 09:37:20 PM »
Here is good simple website about Roman history, and the ancient inhabitants of the Italian peninsula, basically three tribes who became the 'Romans':

http://www.roman-colosseum.info/roman-empire/ancient-history-of-italy.htm

Interesting website, Frank.
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline EyeBelieve

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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2011, 12:00:48 AM »
Actually, the Roman Empire was far from homogenous, and this led to it's ultimate downfall.

However, the Romans did contribute much to civilization, in terms of organization, engineering, and, yes, family values, primarily among the privileged classes...And yes, when the Empire tried to integrate various more primitive groups into their civilization, the problems began.

In fact, the Romans serve as a good example of what happens to a civilization when it 'over reaches'...Kind of like current day 'empires' (both British and US).

Well, um, I'm not an expert on this but LaRouche claims that Romans contributed nothing & were essentially vile & immoral.  Yeah, Romans built roads & aqueducts but that technology could hardly be considered a Roman innovation.  Their culture & religion was a corrupt derivative of Greece etc, their entertainment was bestial.  Supposedly Rome had it's roots in solid rural bourgeois values but I think that was quickly lost in the empire far before foreigners caused "problems".  LaRouche portrays history as a struggle between Aristotelian oligarchs vs Platonic humanists.  Romans seem to have little philosophical legacy other than Might Makes Right.

Offline AngelOfLight

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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2011, 06:21:53 PM »
Sure...Germany, Turkey, Palestine, Arabia, Syria, Persia, the various 'Huns' or Turkic tribes that constantly moved into Europe and gradually encroached upon the Empire...Rome would fight with these particular groups for a time, but since you can't be constantly at war, they would, at some point, seek to integrate them...North Africans also.

Here is good simple website about Roman history, and the ancient inhabitants of the Italian peninsula, basically three tribes who became the 'Romans':

http://www.roman-colosseum.info/roman-empire/ancient-history-of-italy.htm

This is what I said Frank... I don't think I said anything different then what you are trying to say!

Good article, I only want to point out that Roman Empire was the only one that survived more then 200 years, 2000 in fact! This was do to the fact that it was a homogeneous society and the high moral values that was given to the family, parents had total control of their kids, they couldn't even get married with out the permission of their parents! It fell when the racial, religious and ideological make of it changed!
Judge me if you're with out sin!

Offline Sue

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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2011, 02:30:37 PM »
           Alpha - Omega -  Think of a wheel - WWIII is on the horizon - And then the cycle begins again.

           From bondage to spiritual faith;
           From spiritual faith to great courage;
           From courage to liberty;
           From liberty to abundance;
           From abundance to complacency;
           From complacency to apathy;
           From apathy to dependence;
           From dependence back into bondage.”
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Spahi

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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2011, 03:12:48 PM »
           Alpha - Omega -  Think of a wheel - WWIII is on the horizon - And then the cycle begins again.

           From bondage to spiritual faith;
           From spiritual faith to great courage;
           From courage to liberty;
           From liberty to abundance;
           From abundance to complacency;
           From complacency to apathy;
           From apathy to dependence;
           From dependence back into bondage.”

I've gone through that cycle in a day sometimes.

Offline Sue

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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2011, 03:14:27 PM »
ATTACK ON LIBYA PRELUDE TO WORLD WAR THREE



'Deadly Secret', a short film that was written, produced & released before the upheaval in the Middle East, predicts that the US/UN actions in Libya and other countries yet to come, will lead to a Nuclear War. It is clear that the internet is being used like a weapon. It was developed by the US Military. DARPA - Defense Advanced Research Projects Industry. The net is being used to promote divisions between groups around the world. It is being used to destabilize countries. The US military are using fake persona to spread propaganda. The chaos in the Middle-East is just part of the old divide & rule formula. Colonization did not end 200 hundred years ago.

It's still going on under the guise of Democracy. Democracy is nothing but a facade created to make you believe that you have choice; that you can choose your own destiny; that power is with the people. Democracy is really a way to take power away from people. There is really only one political party: 'The Destroy The World Party' and it's clear that they are celebrating! It is the hidden face behind the most powerful governments and now it's clear that even the UN is under their control. The UN is no longer a peace keeper but a war monger! We are now witnessing the transition of the UN to its new role: 'The World Army'.

Like most other wars, the attack on Libya is an attempt to divide the country so that large corporations can gain control of Gadhafi's oil reserves. Who are the Rebels ? Are they being paid? Oil is the life blood of industry. Without it everything ceases and it's running out. There are many competing interests in this conflict. Each vying for a share in the dwindling oil reserves around the world. They are trying to orchestrate a nuclear war. Russia, China & America all have large arsenals of nuclear weapons at their disposal. Conflict helps the share market to fluctuate. This is how money is made.

Criminal organizations run the world...Democracy means Mob (Criminal) Rule...These events are a prelude to a large scale nuclear war that will devastate the earth. I believe it will take place within the next 5 to 10 years. It is inevitable! The Earth Exit Network was established to save people from the most terrible destruction imaginable. The disasters we are witnessing around the world are omens, pointing to this final apocalyptic senario. There is only one solution if you want to survive!

"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline WaltDisney

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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2011, 03:16:18 PM »
Well, um, I'm not an expert on this but LaRouche claims that Romans contributed nothing & were essentially vile & immoral.  Yeah, Romans built roads & aqueducts but that technology could hardly be considered a Roman innovation.  Their culture & religion was a corrupt derivative of Greece etc, their entertainment was bestial.  Supposedly Rome had it's roots in solid rural bourgeois values but I think that was quickly lost in the empire far before foreigners caused "problems".  LaRouche portrays history as a struggle between Aristotelian oligarchs vs Platonic humanists.  Romans seem to have little philosophical legacy other than Might Makes Right.

LaRouche is an idiot.

He broadbrushes and espouses inherant biases against the obvious.  And he is dead wrong.


Rome gave the world:
Dams, Bridges, Aqueducts, Mining, Cranes, Screw Press, Treadwheel, Architecture, Engineering, Cast Iron, Lighthouses, Mills, Steam Power, Plough, Soap,   Sanitation, Art, Poets, and an empire that has never been matched, until Jews destroyed it-Inflation, attack on borders, language and culture.




2nd Century B.C.
•Panaetius
(c. 185-110 B.C.)
Stoic and Neo-Platonic Philosopher

•Cicero
(106-43 B.C.)
Roman statesman and philosopher

•Lucretius
(c. 98-55 B.C.)

Roman poet and Epicurean philosopher
1st Century A.D.
•Epictetus
(A.D. 50 - 138)
Roman philosopher



2nd Century A.D.
•Marcus Aurelius
(A.D. 121-180)
Roman emperor and philosopher


3rd Century A.D.
•Plotinus
(c. A.D. 204-270)
Greco-roman philosopher


4th Century A.D.
•Augustine of Hippo
(A.D. 354-430)
Church father/theologian

•Hypatia of Alexandria
(c. A.D. 370-415)
Alexandrian philosopher


5th Century A.D.
•Proclus Diadochus
(A.D. 8 Feb 411-17 April 485)
Greco-roman philosopher and mathematician
•Boethius
(A.D. 480-525)
Philosopher and Christian martyr who was called the last of the Romans.

"I hardly exaggerate. Jewish life consists of two elements: Extracting money and protesting."
-Nahum Goldmann, Ex-President of the World Jewish Congress

Offline Sue

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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2011, 03:18:00 PM »
I've gone through that cycle in a day sometimes.

That must have been a rough day....  :-\
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Spahi

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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2011, 03:21:23 PM »
Well, um, I'm not an expert on this but LaRouche claims that Romans contributed nothing & were essentially vile & immoral.

They knew all about military organization, but that about sums it up.

Offline Sue

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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2011, 03:40:44 PM »

Colonisation the continuing saga...from the makers of 'Desert Storm' & 'The Invasion of Afghanistan', comes the latest Hollywood blockbuster: 'Battle Libya'. Set in the oil rich Middle East, 'Battle Libya' is an action packed sequel to all of the other invasions by a highly technologically advanced, malevolent alien race, who cunningly disguise themselves as the good guys: spreading democracy & human rights. However, their main goal is to extract Libya's natural resources & pave the way for an artificial alien way of life in which people become the servants of technology.
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline EyeBelieve

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« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2011, 07:21:28 PM »
LaRouche is an idiot.

He broadbrushes and espouses inherant biases against the obvious.  And he is dead wrong.

Broadbrush perhaps; when speaking of the ancients he usually is talking more of the philosophy & effect on later history.  Many of the items listed below were certainly not invented by romans although they were often advanced in applying them.  They were also advanced in applying slavery, military conquest & tribute, appalling "games" etc.  LaRouche says Rome was corrupted by a Delphic cult (which may have had Jewish influence), you say the Jews, basically alone, screwed things up.

Rome was pretty good at keeping records & building monumental architecture so this is why scholars & history gives them so much attention.  Much of ancient civilization has been lost; if we knew all the facts it might well diminish the 'accomplishments' of Romans.  BTW, thank God we don't use Roman numerals anymore...something only useful for Jeopardy questions.   ;)

RE the philosophers, again I'm not an expert; some that you mention (like Boethius) are creditable; others may have simply been repeating or expanding on Hellenic etc philosophy.  LaRouche IDs Plato as uniquely evil, esp in ongoing influence...he is taught to this day as a learned elder which is perhaps a mistake.

BTW after reading Confederacy of Dunces I read Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy; a nice book (& short!).

Quote
Rome gave the world:
Dams, Bridges, Aqueducts, Mining, Cranes, Screw Press, Treadwheel, Architecture, Engineering, Cast Iron, Lighthouses, Mills, Steam Power, Plough, Soap,   Sanitation, Art, Poets, and an empire that has never been matched, until Jews destroyed it-Inflation, attack on borders, language and culture.




2nd Century B.C.
•Panaetius
(c. 185-110 B.C.)
Stoic and Neo-Platonic Philosopher

•Cicero
(106-43 B.C.)
Roman statesman and philosopher

•Lucretius
(c. 98-55 B.C.)

Roman poet and Epicurean philosopher
1st Century A.D.
•Epictetus
(A.D. 50 - 138)
Roman philosopher



2nd Century A.D.
•Marcus Aurelius
(A.D. 121-180)
Roman emperor and philosopher


3rd Century A.D.
•Plotinus
(c. A.D. 204-270)
Greco-roman philosopher


4th Century A.D.
•Augustine of Hippo
(A.D. 354-430)
Church father/theologian

•Hypatia of Alexandria
(c. A.D. 370-415)
Alexandrian philosopher


5th Century A.D.
•Proclus Diadochus
(A.D. 8 Feb 411-17 April 485)
Greco-roman philosopher and mathematician
•Boethius
(A.D. 480-525)
Philosopher and Christian martyr who was called the last of the Romans.

Offline Spahi

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« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2011, 07:26:19 PM »
Rome was pretty good at keeping records & building monumental architecture so this is why scholars & history gives them so much attention.  Much of ancient civilization has been lost; if we knew all the facts it might well diminish the 'accomplishments' of Romans.  BTW, thank God we don't use Roman numerals anymore...something only useful for Jeopardy questions.   ;)

It's no secret they distorted facts about anyone viewed as the 'enemy' (Cleopatra, Hannibal, Carthage especially). To me, Greece is still Greece without Rome, but a Rome without Greece...we would just remember them like we do with all the other old expansionist empires. Not that the other old empires didn't have merit, just saying they are overlooked.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 07:34:00 PM by Spahi »