Author Topic: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque  (Read 3058 times)

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Offline Unterhund

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Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« on: August 04, 2010, 07:49:04 PM »
I am NOT Basque.

I just find them fascinating people.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dZc_rvQt93E&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/dZc_rvQt93E&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1</a>

The Basques are a mighty people.  They have withstood the Romans, the Muslims, the Franks, the Spanish and French.

They want a country.

I am not sure if autonomy (or how much?) or Independence is advisable.

But they are fascinating, nontheless.

Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2010, 07:51:22 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/KV_iEM31AcU&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/KV_iEM31AcU&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1</a>

Very interesting documentary.

Now here is a war in which the Jews may have absolutely no interest.

Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2010, 07:56:45 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/gwj9xfW7gfY&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/gwj9xfW7gfY&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1</a>

Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2010, 08:04:30 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ORn7Ld_01HI&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ORn7Ld_01HI&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=</a>

Given their sad history, I would be sympathetic EXCEPT THEY VOTE SOCIALIST, another tyranny.

Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2010, 08:16:04 PM »
That's it.   A Video comparing Basques to the Jews.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z_jR9Z2C4mc&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Z_jR9Z2C4mc&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1</a>

Well, for most of the NOLAJBSers that means no sympathy for the Basques,

Offline Spahi

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2010, 08:56:18 PM »
Yes, they are very interesting, like many ethnic groups without a country for themselves. I believe Catalan and Galician people in Spain have also called for independence in the past, and the Bretons in France as well.

Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2010, 09:17:10 PM »
The Bretons will probably not succeed.  They seem to have been crushed,

Catalan is another story.

What scares Spain is that Catalunya (the Catalan name) and the Basques overproduce far more than the average Spaniard; and if both regions did get independence, Spain would be a 3rd world country stuck with the non-producers.

The sad thing is that these peoples are expressing an honest desire for independence through a disastrously myopic love of socialism.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/vhq88pgOa6w" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/vhq88pgOa6w</a>

Spain is NOT like Germany, where everyone is German.   Germany united voluntarily.  Prussians and Bavarians may not like each other but both feel German.  Okay, Okay maybe not so much Bavaria.

Spain is like Britain where separate nations were united by force. A Scot does not feel English.

Like England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland, once the empire dies the constituent parts will fly apart.  Ireland flew away and wants Ulster back. Scotland wants to bolt.  The only ones calling themselves British are the Orange of Ulster.

Even so, Spain has Galacian, Catalan, Basque etc groups all clamoring for independence.
These people speak different languages (Galacian - half Portuguese), Catalan (Catalan) and Basque (Basque).  Spain and Britain are empires even in their European states.

Unlike American states, these are historically different peoples.

Hopefully, this never happens to America.

Offline Spahi

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2010, 09:38:54 PM »
Spain is NOT like Germany, where everyone is German.   Germany united voluntarily.  Prussians and Bavarians may not like each other but both feel German.  Okay, Okay maybe not so much Bavaria.

Yeah I only realized this recently. At least in Spain they are all mostly Catholic though which was good enough for unity at the time, which was hardly the case for Britain.

Quote
Hopefully, this never happens to America.

Thought it did already  ;D

Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2010, 10:19:30 PM »
Yeah I only realized this recently. At least in Spain they are all mostly Catholic though which was good enough for unity at the time, which was hardly the case for Britain.

Thought it did already  ;D

Yeah I only realized this recently. At least in Spain they are all mostly Catholic though which was good enough for unity at the time, which was hardly the case for Britain.

Thought it did already  ;D

If you are referring to the Confederacy, the called themselves American right up to the point of Attempted Secession. They referred to themselves as Americans right after Lee surrendered.

In fact, a colony of ex-Confederates in Brazil called their town Americana, NOT Confederia.

The Confederates did NOT speak a different language.

They claimed to separate of state's rights but the only state right they were willing to fight for was the right to own slaves.

Alexander Stephens upon his inaugaration as VP of the Confederacy.

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.

Stephens admitted slavery was the animating cause of the Civil War, and Lincoln came to that view later.  


The early apologists did not want to admit it on either side, but by the end, all admitted that slavery was the animating problem.

Lincoln came to admit it in 1865 at the Second Inaugural Address

Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."


The Confederacy was NOT a natural secession.  It was doomed to fail.

This is NOT so of the Basque nor Catalan who are naturally different peoples with different histories and experiences AND LANGUAGES.

THIS WAS NOT TRUE OF THE CONFEDERACY, where even in Brazil, the town is called Americana.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/fVJrv5V-uMY" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/fVJrv5V-uMY</a>


However, when the American Empire breaks up - as it may do immediately - Washington D.C. may no longer be heliocentric to the American Republic.

I hope a UNITED REPUBLIC survives the collapse of empire.

Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2010, 10:23:32 PM »
Yeah I only realized this recently. At least in Spain they are all mostly Catholic though which was good enough for unity at the time, which was hardly the case for Britain.

Spain and England became the World's Two biggest Empires precisely because they had experience building empires of other peoples in their local arenas (Spain's Peninsula and England's archipelego).

Fortunately, I do NOT see this fate for America.  We will remain one people.  But I do see Washington D.C.  fading into insignificance.


Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2010, 01:00:09 AM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/tJWk7v0oVfk" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/tJWk7v0oVfk</a>

Another Interesting Documentary --- SHORT

Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2010, 08:38:42 PM »
<a href="http://youtube.com/v/oFUgxx3HmTI" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://youtube.com/v/oFUgxx3HmTI</a>

They have this big festival every 5 years in Idaho.  I wish I had been there to see it.

Offline Spahi

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2010, 08:50:06 PM »
Dunno if you play video games, but it's always fun to try to survive as Granada or Navarra in Europa Universalis before those Castilian or Aragonian bastards vassalize/annex you  ;D

Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2010, 09:11:59 PM »
Dunno if you play video games, but it's always fun to try to survive as Granada or Navarra in Europa Universalis before those Castilian or Aragonian bastards vassalize/annex you  ;D

The only video game I play is CIV 4.

However, I used to think Italy was the most fascinating country in Europe.  I now know it is Spain.   Has to be Spain because Spain is at least 5 countries and they all hate each other.

Basque Land <= hates => Madrid

Catalonia(unya) <= hates => Madrid

Galacia <= resents => Madrid

Gibraltor <= hates => Madrid

Andalusia <= dislikes => Madrid

Valenica <= wants no part of => Catalonia(unya) even though it also speaks Catalan and does not share Catalonia's (unya's) vision of an independent Greater Catalan homeland, which would include Catalan speaking Valencia.

But the Basque love the Catalan chiefly because both  hates => Madrid and both lobby for Independence.  Quite common to see Catalan Flags in the Basque Country and I assume vica verse.

I have no idea how that country Spain ever came together.  It is more separate than the British Isles, which are falling apart.




Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2010, 09:29:28 PM »
If you go to TIME, you will see that right after WWII, everyone was predicting the collapse of Franco in months.

In fact, the exiled Republican gov''t which had thrown Communists out of its exiled cabinet, then called off guerilla actions, because they expected French or American intervention.

There were substantial querrilla attacks from 1944-46.

But the exiled Republican gov't, expecting the Western Democracies to do a clean sweep of fasciam, laid down their arms a bit too early.  By the time they realized the West was going to do nothing, it was too late to rekindle the struggle.

Franco was really, really walking a tightrope, and it is amazing how he survived.  He was hated not only by the left, but my members of the right.  Churchill wanted him out and a monarch re-instated.

You would be surprised what saved Franco during and after the war.

It was Irish-Americans.

Irish-Americans had a long historical memory of British persecution of Catholicism.  So when the Republican gov't in 1936 went after priests and nuns - almost all of whom were collaborators of Franco - it got reported that the Republican were anti-Catholic leftists.

Actually, even in Catalonia, the Republican/CNA Units had Catholic - and even Protestant - chaplains.  Franco shot these.  The issue was collaboration not religion.,

But in America, the headlines read   PRIESTS BEING SHOT.  NUNS ATTACKED!

So the Irish Catholic cardinals and bishops mobilized.  Their flocks were told whom to support.

Now, Roosevelt ran on a coalition.  He was pro-Spanish-Repubican; but his east coast Urban coalition were all Irish-Catholic City Politicians.    New York.  Chicago.  Boston.  Even Jersey City, which was quite big then, were ALL run by Irish Democrats.

There was no way he could go against his Irish Catholic constituency.

They absolutely stopped an chance of US aid.

Action France, a Catholic group in France did the same.

I suspect the British are just naturally conservative.

Anyhow, after the war, the Catholic Church looked upon Franco as a hero. (as a kid, I remember one nun saying that to me).

And this is why the USA never went after Franco.

Talk all you want about Jewish power.  The Catholic Church protected Franco; who would otherwise have been stopped in 1937 with US Aid or toppled in 1946.

Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2010, 09:35:14 PM »
I just found out that Mocedades was a Basque Group formed in Bilbao.

But in 1973, Basque was discouraged, so they sang in Spanish.

<a href="http://youtube.com/v/L1iqSaU57cI" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://youtube.com/v/L1iqSaU57cI</a>


Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2010, 11:22:21 PM »
WONDERFUL DOCUMENTARY OF BASQUE KIDS IN SCOTLAND

<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/x93xb3?additionalInfos=0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/x93xb3?additionalInfos=0</a>

Offline FLAT_HEADED_RUSSIAN

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2010, 04:05:52 AM »
Good stuff
We are Legion
We do not forgive
We do not forget
Expect us

Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2010, 11:59:07 AM »
Quote
Good stuff

The Basque are one of the most fascinating people on the planet.  AND I AM NOT BASQUE!

I just find them amazing though.


But there is a bit of a historical embarrassment.  This song Jerusalem of Gold
was lifted from a Basque Folk Song called: Pello Joxepe

Jerusalem of Gold
<a href="http://youtube.com/v/mybSCz_wPn8" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://youtube.com/v/mybSCz_wPn8</a>

The author of Jerusalem of Gold admitted it.   The song is a traditional Basque folk song and the singer is Paco Ibáñez who was NOT upset but rather happy about it.   Paco Ibáñez had a Basque mother, which is probably where he got the song from.

Apparently, the Jewish author had lifted it unconsciously and only realized it later, which is common in art.  People imbibe an influence and forget where they got it from.

THIS IS THE ORIGINAL BASQUE FOLK SONG    Pello Joxepe sung by Paco Ibáñez, who himself is half-Basque.

<a href="http://youtube.com/v/YccZk1Ao2IY" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://youtube.com/v/YccZk1Ao2IY</a>

Mr. Ibáñez took it graciously and was rather honored by it.

Offline Unterhund

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Re: Great Basque Stuff - all things Basque
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2010, 12:15:52 PM »
The Basque Roots of "Jerusalem Gold"

By URI AVNERY

The uproar has been raging for two weeks so far, and is showing no sign of abating. Israel is shaken to the core--is it the postponed "disengagement plan? Is it the killing of demonstrators against the Wall? No, it's a song.

Like a devout Christian, Naomi Shemer confessed, on her deathbed, to the greatest sin of her life: her immortal song, "Jerusalem of Gold", is a copy of a Basque lullaby she heard some years earlier from a Spanish singer.

The way she told it, she had not stolen the melody consciously, but had absorbed it into her subconscious and taken it for her own. It was, as she put it, "a work accident". She also took pains to stress that she had altered eight notes of the melody, so that, according to the law, she had every right to the royalties she had been receiving for 38 years.

Good. Can happen to anybody. You see or hear something, it enters your unconscious mind, and when it later emerges you believe it's your own idea. But in this case, something more serious happened: several times in the past she was asked about the similarity of the songs, and she reacted angrily, denying any resemblance and even attacking the questioners. But in her letter of confession, addressed to a close friend, on the eve of her death, she admitted that pain of remorse had been gnawing at her guts, and had perhaps caused her fatal cancer.

Up to this point, a painful but not very important story. A songwriter makes a mistake, her song turns out to be a plagiarism. Except that she was no ordinary songwriter, and this no ordinary song.

Naomi Shemer is a symbol of what is called, nostalgically, "the beautiful Eretz Israel". She was born in a socialist Kibbutz on the shores of the Sea of Tiberias and celebrated the landscape of the country in words and music. Even when she married an extreme rightist and became an icon of that trend, leftists continued to admire her for her modesty, engaging personality and the quality of her songs.

But the song was even more important than the songwriter. Not only because of its quality, but also because of its extraordinary history.

Exactly 38 years ago, on the eve of the 1967 Independence Day, Shemer took part in an Israeli song competition. For this occasion she wrote the song--lyrics and music--and insisted that it be sung by an unknown young singer. Just another song, just another festival. But the moment the song was heard in the hall and on the radio, something happened. It touched the souls of all who heard it.

Even then it would have remained just a beautiful song, if the Six-Day war had not broken out a few weeks later. The Israeli army conquered East Jerusalem, the soldiers reached the Western Wall, a remnant of the ancient Jewish Temple. Israel was swept by the intoxication of victory, spiced with a semi-religious mysticism.

Overnight, "Jerusalem of Gold" became the supreme expression of the national mood, the symbol of a victory that was seen as redemption, a second national anthem.

I myself saw in this an opportunity. I was a member of the Knesset at the time. I do not like--to say the least--our national anthem. It was written more than a hundred years ago, and expressed the longing of the Jewish Diaspora for the Land of Israel. It is a hymn of a dispersed religious-ethnic community rather than the anthem of a sovereign state.

Even worse, more than 20% of the citizens of Israel are not Jews at all, and it is not healthy that so many citizens cannot identify with the anthem and the flag of their state. By the way, the melody of the anthem, HaTikvah ("The Hope") was also "borrowed", but no one ever tried to hide this. It is a Romanian shepherd's song (with a version appearing in The Moldau, the symphonic poem of the Czech national composer Bedrich Smetana.)

I thought that if I proposed Naomi Shemer's song as a national anthem, I might be able to build a consensus for the idea of changing the existing one. I was not happy with several nationalist phrases added to the song, but I believed that we could change that along the way.

I introduced a bill to this effect. The Speaker insisted I obtain the agreement of the author. So I met her in a Tel-Aviv Cafe. I thought I detected a certain hesitation on her part, which I understand only now. In the end she allowed me to announce that she was not opposed to the idea.

The bill was never put to a vote, but throughout the years "Jerusalem of Gold" has enjoyed the unofficial status of a second national anthem, and especially as the anthem of the Six-Day War.

This is what makes the present uproar more than a scandal about a song and its author. "Jerusalem of Gold" has suffered the same fate as the Six-Day War.

That war was preceded by three weeks of mounting, nerve-racking anxiety, when almost all Israelis--from members of the cabinet to the last citizen--believed that the state and its inhabitants were in mortal danger. The armies of Egypt, Syria and Jordan were poised--so it seemed--to invade its territory from three sides and eradicate it from the face of the earth, when the Israeli army attacked first, defeated all three and conquered not only the remainder of Palestine, but also the Sinai Peninsula and the Golan Heights.

Years later, it became clear to historians that there had been no real danger to the state, that the neighboring countries has not intended to attack but merely to bluff, that Israel's victory had been no miracle but the result of meticulous preparations, especially by the Air Force. But the myth survives to this very day.

During the fighting and the following days, it looked like a classic war of defense. Nobody even considered a permanent occupation. It was clear that we would be compelled to leave the occupied territories very soon, as happened after the 1956 Sinai war. The question was who to give them back to: The government and most parties were thinking about Jordan and Egypt, while I and those who shared my ideas, including at the time several army generals, proposed handing them over to the Palestinian people, so as to enable them to establish the State of Palestine. Until that happened, it was believed, they would live under a "benign occupation".

Since then, 38 long years have passed. The "benign occupation" has long since turned into a brutal and ugly regime of oppression. The prophecy of Professor Yeshayahu Leibovitz, that the occupation would corrupt us through and through and turn us into a people of exploiters and secret-service-men, has come awfully true. Nothing has remained of the "beautiful Eretz Israel" but a cloying nostalgia, of which Naomi Shemer was a standard-bearer. A small and gallant state, progressive and (relatively) egalitarian, respected by the world, has become an occupying and looting state, hostage to delirious settlers, full of internal violence and "swinish capitalism" (a phrase coined by Shimon Peres, one of those most responsible for this situation.) Throughout the world, the idea of boycotting Israel is gaining ground.

What looked at the time like a divine miracle now looks more like a pact with the devil.

Israel is a country built on many symbols and myths. What could be more symbolic than the destruction of the myth of the Six-Day war, now followed by the collapse of the myth of "Jerusalem of Gold", that war's symbol in song?

Uri Avnery is an Israeli writer and peace activist with Gush Shalom. He is one of the writers featured in The Other Israel: Voices of Dissent and Refusal. He is also a contributor to CounterPunch's hot new book The Politics of Anti-Semitism. He can be reached at: avnery@counterpunch.org.

=========================

My own view is this:   Everybody borrows.   American folk music is based on Scots-Irish Music (Ulster Plantation Orange) Music, which the Ulster Orange stole from the Irish Catholics they despised.

Anybody who hears Irish folk music and American folk music played back to back can see the influence.

And who knows where the Irish got the music from?

Rock n' Roll is based on dumbed down Jazz which is based on West African Rythms.

Mr. Ibanez was right to be gracious.  He took the song from the Basques, and who knows who influenced them?