Author Topic: The Big Lie  (Read 3530 times)

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Offline E_T

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The Big Lie
« on: June 03, 2009, 05:02:49 PM »
The Big Lie


Ahron Jay Cristol 
A. Jay Cristol, a U.S. bankruptcy court judge who wrote `The Liberty Incident,` said in the book that 10 U.S. and three Israeli investigations have found no evidence of any Israeli intent to attack an American ship.
http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2008/06/ap_liberty_investigator_061808/


Ahron Jay Cristol, the author of dense and nearly unreadable screed published in 2002 as The Liberty Incident, persists in repeating at every opportunity the false report that the Liberty attack has been repeatedly investigated and found to be a tragic accident. The Liberty Incident, now out of print, was first published as a doctoral thesis and eventually in hard and soft cover by Brassey's. Cristol's web site proclaims in its second paragraph:
"After ten official US investigations (including five congressional investigations), there was never any evidence that the attack was made with knowledge that the target was a US ship. There is substantial evidence the attack was a tragic mistake caused by blunders of both the US and Israel. Eight US presidents, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush (41), Clinton, and Bush (43), have each accepted the conclusion that the attack was a tragic case of mistaken identity."

We have found no evidence that any of those assertions are true. Mr. Cristol has not responded to our repeated requests for proof or documentation of those claims. Moreover, the Liberty Veterans Association has long offered a $10,000 reward to anyone who can show that these statements are true. See www.ussliberty.org/challenge.htm. No one has ever applied for the reward. There has never been a Congressional investigation. We are unaware that any American president has accepted the position that the attack was a tragic accident. The only American government investigation of any kind was the U.S.Navy Court of Inquiry in 1967. That inquiry examined only the performance of the crew and the adequacy of communications and avoided entirely the question of whether the attack was deliberate, accepting "at face value" the Israeli claim that the attack was an accident. That inquiry has been dismissed by its own legal counsel, legal counsel to the convening authority and numerous other key figures as fraudulent. Yet Mr. Cristol persists in his false reports. Unfortunately, the big lie has been repeated so often that it is widely repeated even by Members of Congress as if it were established fact. Moreover, we have a letter from the Librarian of Congress verifying that there has never been such an investigation which is reproduced below.

We have repeatedly requested that Mr. Cristol explain, justify, remove or stop repeating his false claim. He declines to do so or to respond -- although his failure to keep the book in print is a statement in itself.

Meanwhile, Cristol ignores our specific request for comment.

The Library of Congress confirms that Congress has never held hearings or launched an investigation into the attack on USS Liberty. Mr. Cristol's account is false. We have repeatedly asked him to remove his false report from his web site. He declines to reply or to correct the false claim despite frequent requests for him to do so.

The Library of Congress reports: "After checking numerous resources, including the CIS (Congressional Information Service) Indexes to Congressional Hearings (both published and unpublished), and the Public Documents Masterfile, I could find no evidence that the Congress ever held hearings or launched an investigation into the June 8, 1967 incident with the USS Liberty." ECH, Reference Librarian, Library of Congress.



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The Question:

Patron: General Inquiry:
I was aboard the USS Liberty (AGTR-5) when the ship was attacked on June 8, 1967.

In searching through the Library of Congress website I could find references to Congressional investigations of the attacks on the USS Pueblo, the USS Cole and the USS Stark but none for the Congressional investigation of the attack on the USS Liberty.

Could you tell me why there is no copy of any Congressional investigation of the attack on the USS Liberty in the Library of Congress?

If it has not yet been provided to you, could you contact the appropriate Congressional personnel to ensure the Congressional investigation of the attack on the USS Liberty is provided to the Library of Congress?

Thanks in advance.

Joe Meadors



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Dear Patron:

Thank you for your query.

After checking numerous resources, including the CIS (Congressional Information Service) Indexes to Congressional Hearings (both published and unpublished), and the Public Documents Masterfile, I could find no evidence that the Congress ever held hearings or launched an investigation into the June 8, 1967 incident with the USS Liberty.

The Library of Congress does have the following titles concerning the USS Liberty in the Library's collections:

[Several references follow] I hope that this information is helpful.

ECH
Reference Librarian
Main Reading Room
Humanities & Social Sciences Division
Library of Congress
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20540-4660
(202) 707-3399



[USS Liberty Survivors:] Jim Ennes and Joe Meadors


USS Liberty

http://www.ussliberty.org/thebiglie.htm
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Offline E_T

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Re: The Big Lie
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2009, 05:06:05 PM »
A post I saved from the walking on eggshells... USS Liberty Inquiry Forum before it closed.

The Survivors had to even be guarded in what they said as to not offend the murderers.


Quote
Glenn Oliphant
USS Liberty survivor

A little off topic, but since we are talking about Congress I would like to pass on this information. Last June while in Washington, I along with several shipmates visited seven Congressonal offices. None of the members would speak with us, but in five of the offices staffers chose to speak with us. Four of those who chose to speak asked that we step out into the hall and then talk. Apparently they didn't want the spies in the office to hear what they would say. Three of the staffers told us this was a topic that was to sensitive for the Congress to touch. One staffer kept looking over her shoulder into the office and sure enough the spy appeared and she quit talking. Another staffer took us into a very private office and discussed the issue. Not one of the staffers offered to help us, in fact, two of the staffers told us that two days before we appeared a letter was distributed around the offices from a lobbyist (guess who) with the story that there had been 10 investigations and they should repeat that to inquiries into the matter. So Congress has been tainted, (nicest word I could think for it) and America has lost it's freedom.
__________________
Glenn Oliphant
Liberty Survivor

http://www.usslibertyinquiry.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8124&postcount=33
Rest satisfied with doing well, and leave others to talk of you as they will.
Pythagoras (BC 582-BC 507) Greek philosopher

Offline gelignite

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Re: The Big Lie
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2009, 08:47:19 PM »
Mr. Cristol has not responded to our repeated requests for proof or documentation of those claims. Moreover, the Liberty Veterans Association has long offered a $10,000 reward to anyone who can show that these statements are true. See www.ussliberty.org/challenge.htm. No one has ever applied for the reward. There has never been a Congressional investigation.

House Armed Services Committee Investigation (1971):

http://www.thelibertyincident.com/house-investigation-1971.html


House Armed Services Committee Investigation (1991-2):

http://www.thelibertyincident.com/house-investigation-1991.html


Senate Foreign Relations Committee Investigation:

http://www.thelibertyincident.com/senateinvestigation.html

[...

Secretary of Defense McNamara appeared before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and told the Committee:

"In the case of the attack on the Liberty, it was the conclusion of the investigatory body headed by an admiral of the Navy in whom we have great confidence that the attack was not intentional. I read the record of the investigation, and I support that conclusion, and I think...It was not a conscious decision on the part of either the Government of Israel...[t]o attack a U.S. vessel."

...]


To name a few.
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

-WindRiverShoshoni (RIP)

Offline E_T

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Re: The Big Lie
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2009, 08:49:31 PM »
Ahron Cristol's website?  http://www.thelibertyincident.com  LOL!


Quote
$10,000 challenge
The Liberty Veterans Association offers a $10,000 reward to anyone who can establish the truth of A. Jay Cristol's claim: 1

"After ten official US investigations (including five congressional investigations), there was never any evidence that the attack was made with knowledge that the target was a US ship."

The LVA has disputed the truth of this statement for years. We know it is untrue. The claim that there have been any official Congressional investigations into the culpability for the Israeli attack on USS Liberty is patently false. There have been NO official Congressional investigations on this subject. We believe that the best way to prove that the above statement is untrue is to offer a reward to anyone (including Mr. Cristol) who can prove that it is true.

Address responses to challenge@ussliberty.com

The challenge has been offered since March 1, 2004, with no takers.

http://www.ussliberty.org/challenge.htm
Rest satisfied with doing well, and leave others to talk of you as they will.
Pythagoras (BC 582-BC 507) Greek philosopher

Offline gelignite

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Re: The Big Lie
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2009, 09:04:29 PM »
Ahron Cristol's website?  http://www.thelibertyincident.com  LOL!

Laugh all you want.

This is, more or less, the accepted version of events.
I'm quite certain that you honestly believe in the purposes of your advocacy... And I am definitely opposed to banishment ~ your mere presence is a testimony to the value of this forum... Your absence would suggest that we are wasting our time here...

-WindRiverShoshoni (RIP)

Offline SlackerSlayer

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Re: The Big Lie
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 04:00:40 AM »
THAT is the entire point gelphishy. The tainted history perverted to defend killers is being corrected.

Now keep your lies off this topic before YOU encite real hate.
Truth justice and the American way is a list of three different things that are not necessarily related. 2001 9 11 is an inside job and an open case file treated by those that refuse to do their duty as a closed case file.

Offline Ajax

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Re: The Big Lie
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2009, 07:52:41 AM »


Washington Report, August 2005, pages 17-18

Special Report
USS Liberty Veterans Present Pentagon With Report on Israeli War Crimes
By Delinda C. Hanley
   
Survivors of Israel`s 1967 attack on the USS Liberty have been silenced and ignored by the country they put their lives on the line to protect. They are asking the Bush administration for a thorough investigation (Staff photo D. Hanley).
     

SURVIVORS, friends and family gathered at Arlington Cemetery on June 8, 2005 to honor 34 USS Liberty sailors killed in Israel`s shocking naval and air attack on the ship 38 years ago. As a sailor struck a triangle, breaking the silence in a sea of tombstones, shipmates read the names of each victim. One survivor, whose ill health made him miss this reunion, listened from afar via cell phone.

As survivors watched the 90-year-old mother of one fallen hero and the sister of another lay a wreath at the grave marker where 11 crew members are buried, these men, and the women who love them, silently vowed to keep fighting until the murders and the subsequent cover-up are explained.

There was a palpable, almost electric feeling at this particular gathering in Washington, DC. At past reunions survivors  swapped talk of recent surgeries and the continuing struggle to cope with their injuries. Of the original crew of 294 officers and civilians, 34 men were killed and another 173 wounded in action that day in June 1967. Because the few who survived without physical wounds had to gather up their buddies` body parts, no one left that ship unscathed. Even harder to bear than the physical and mental anguish these Americans have endured, however, has been their government`s betrayal and silence for nearly four decades.

At their reunion this year, crewmembers began the legal process which they hope will open the doors to the first thorough investigation of the Israeli attack.

At a June 10 press conference at the Hotel Washington, Liberty survivors presented details of a `Report of War Crimes` brief filed by James R. Gotcher, general legal counsel for the USS Liberty Veterans Association (USS-LVA). On June 8, the anniversary of the attack, Gotcher submitted the 35-page, carefully footnoted report to Army Secretary Francis J. Harvey, who acts as executive agent for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. After receiving this report, brimming with evidence of war crimes committed by Israel against U.S. military personnel, the secretary of defense is obligated to initiate an official inquiry.

The report lists the laws of war that Israel ignored and provides vital testimony from survivors, as well as pertinent quotes from leaders of that time. To examine the entire report, visit the USS Liberty Web site: <http://www.ussliberty.org/>. It`s vital that all Americans and their elected officials read this compelling and conclusive document.

USS-LVA board member Moe Shafer told reporters that the victims of the Israeli attack filed this report after 38 years because their government has never asked them to testify or carried out a complete investigation. `There is no statute of limitations on war crimes,` Shafer pointed out.

`It`s now incumbent on the U.S. government to take action for the vindication of the survivors of this attack,` said Shafer, `but most importantly for those who lost their lives. To continue doing nothing sends a message to the rest of the world that they may attack U.S. personnel without fear of reprisal.

`Every other maritime attack has been investigated, including the Pueblo, Stark and Cole incidents. This event remains unexamined. It`s long past time to uncover the cover-up,` Shafer concluded.

Next to address reporters was former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia James Akins, who for years has spoken up for Liberty survivors. Akins noted that his friend Ambassador Dwight Porter, U.S. ambassador to Lebanon in 1967, had told syndicated columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak, Akins, and other friends (including the Washington Report`s publisher, executive editor and this reporter), that he had seen transcripts of Israeli radio discussions during the attack. The U.S. monitors heard an Israeli pilot identify the Liberty`s American flag. His superiors ordered him to attack the ship anyway.

In his book The Liberty Incident, A. Jay Cristol, a self-proclaimed historian whose day job is that of a bankruptcy judge, claimed Porter recanted that testimony. `If he had recanted, he would only have done so under threats or blackmail,` his old friend Akins noted.

It`s time to get everyone`s testimony recorded once and for all, Akins said. `Justice must be served while the victims are still alive,` he told the press.

Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN, Ret., former judge advocate general of the Navy, who was involved with the initial Court of Inquiry in 1967, next described hurriedly reading 607 pages of typed testimony. When he questioned some of its conclusions, the report was taken from him and whisked off to Washington officials.

Joe Lentini, a communications expert who was wounded on the Liberty, presented a detailed history of the attack. He showed the audience that the Liberty was unmistakably a spy ship with the latest technology and flew the American flag during the attack. He dedicated his Power Point presentation to Liberty Captain William McGonagle, without whom, he said, `we wouldn`t be here today.` Lentini said he would give his Power Point talk, complete with photos and other evidence of a planned and sustained Israeli attack, to anyone, anywhere, who will listen.

`I don`t know why Israel attacked a neutral vessel in neutral waters without warning or justification,` Lentini said. He`d like to know, he explained, because 14 of the 34 people killed were his own men.

Lentini went on to describe a litany of Israeli war crimes: Israeli forces fired on the wounded and their rescuers. Israeli torpedo boats shot at firefighters, shredding their fire hoses. `The same torpedo boats shot at USS Liberty`s life rafts,` he said, `after the rafts had been put over the side of the ship into the sea for use by shipwrecked survivors.`

Israel`s attack was a violation of the Geneva Conventions regulating conduct of war, Lentini noted. But the subsequent actions of his own government are just as galling as Israel`s original offense. `Why did the U.S. put a foreign nation`s interest ahead of our own?` Lentini asked the audience.

When Ken Halliwell, a semi-retired telecommunications and information systems engineer, saw the photos Cristol used in his book, especially the cover photo, he was troubled, he said`”so he did some sleuthing. Using survivor Warren Haney`s cane as an impromptu pointer, Halliwell showed the audience evidence of fraud in Cristol`s photos.

When he presented his findings to an Israel Defense Forces archivist, Halliwell continued, the IDF official agreed that Cristol`s photos, which the bankruptcy judge claimed were taken by the gun camera of Israel`s lead attack aircraft, were faked. The photos actually are doctored U.S. photos of a ship at dock, Halliwell said. Producing and using fraudulent evidence to support Israel`s case casts doubt on Cristol`s claim that the ship was attacked by accident, Halliwell concluded.
   
After describing the injuries he and others have suffered over the years, Larry Weavers is comforted by his wife, Pam, at the Army-Navy Club banquet (Photo by Michael Keating).
   

Richard Larry Weaver, who was a seaman on the deck of the Liberty during the attack, described his ordeal in moving testimony. `It seemed like the pilot went straight at me,` Weaver said. He wasn`t supposed to live through that first night, he added, and thanked Dr. Richard Kiefer, the ship`s brave physician`”who was too ill to attend this reunion`”for saving his life.

Weaver said he`d never forget recuperating in the hospital and being wheeled down to meet with a three-star admiral, who took off his stars and asked him about the Israeli attack. The admiral then put his stars back on and said, `If you tell anyone what happened you will be put in prison and we`ll lose the key.`

Deserters get shot or put in prison, Weaver told the hushed crowd. `The USS Liberty was deserted by our own government for 38 years...

`I`ve been living in pain day and night since that day,` he continued. `I`ve had 29 major surgeries over the years...I`ve had sons and daughters of my friends on the Liberty ask me what their dad looked like`”what kind of a guy he was,` Weaver said, his voice breaking. `Every president, every government has turned its back on this tragedy. I challenge President Bush to step forward and right this wrong.`

USS-LVA vice president Ernie Gallo, who, after surviving the attack on the Liberty, spent the next 30 years working for the CIA, introduced himself by saying, `First, I`m a loyal American.`

He thought he`d start out that way, he explained, because survivors often are silenced by accusations that they are somehow anti-Semitic for speaking the truth. Gallo`s presentation focused on the shocking cover-up by U.S. public officials of Israel`s attack on his ship. `Why were U.S. planes called back and not permitted to come to our rescue? Why has Congress never investigated the attack?` Gallo asked reporters.

`We think the U.S. government is for the people and of the people,` he noted. `But when it comes to the Middle East and our relationship with Israel, our country wantonly breaks its own laws and falsifies its records.`

After all these years, Gallo said, the truth is still suppressed. Most documents are declassified after 25 years, he noted, but even today many documents requested by survivors are blacked out, or not even released, because they are still top secret.

The State Department`s January 2004 panel discussion on the attack, Gallo marveled, failed to include even one survivor.

`You can`t call what we witnessed an accident,` he stated, but `not one crewmember has been able to tell their story to the authorities.`

Gallo also called for an inquiry into the question of who was responsible for the attack on  the USS Liberty, and why. Addressing the media present, he said, `We need your help to get our story out.`
Delinda C. Hanley is news editor of the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.
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Offline sugar

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Re: The Big Lie
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2009, 08:58:48 AM »

This map shows the course of USS Liberty on June 8th, the Israeli recon flights (shown in circles), and the attacks by air and sea forces.

They were doing surveillance from sunup 'til afternoon and couldn't tell it was US and not Egyptian.  I don't buy it, Geli.
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Offline dean_saor

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Re: The Big Lie
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2009, 10:28:34 AM »
...This is, more or less, the accepted version of events.

As Marcus Aurelius said (in paraphrase), just because 50,000 people agree on a thing does not make it true.
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Offline TheFetch

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Re: The Big Lie
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2009, 06:35:48 AM »

This map shows the course of USS Liberty on June 8th, the Israeli recon flights (shown in circles), and the attacks by air and sea forces.

They were doing surveillance from sunup 'til afternoon and couldn't tell it was US and not Egyptian.  I don't buy it, Geli.

lol....you have to watch the confusion in Gefiltefishes eyes.

Jews are beacons of light - they can do never do any wrong.  Whatever Jews do is beyond question - even treason.  Yet these beacons of light can stalk a ship and then try to take it out and now Jews are not beacons of light but sad stupid morons who with all that US technology cannot for a second make a simple ship ID.

It is clear that Jews are not stupid when it comes to murder and that this was very well premeditated and planned.

Gefiltefish just comes off as treasonous moron...delusional to fault.

Offline TheFetch

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Re: The Big Lie
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2009, 06:46:32 AM »
Laugh all you want.

This is, more or less, the accepted version of events.

The accepted JEWISH CONTROLLED VERSION...you know, like the accepted Jew version of 19 Ayrab fliers?  Or the single bullet Warren report?

You clearly are a buffoon.  I bet you believed the Jewish bitch who sold the story of being raised by wolves and stood on the sidelines while Jews harassed me for mocking the stupid bitch for such an implausible bullshit story...

But yet Jews expected me to believe it or be branded as something "less than Jewish".

What evil...

You know how the Protocols of Zion BRAG about how they write and alter history?

Comeon - the Protocols also BRAG about how they print lies...as if the current Jew controlled media is even REMOTELY linked to the truth?