Author Topic: The Ayn Rand Thread  (Read 3347 times)

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Offline wag

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2009, 08:52:48 AM »
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Objectivism derives its name from the idea that both knowledge and values are objective: neither intrinsic nor subjective. According to Rand, concepts and values are not intrinsic to external reality, nor are they created by the thoughts one has. Rather, valid concepts and values are, as she wrote, "determined by the nature of reality, but to be discovered by man's mind."[3]
I have had conservations with jews where it comes down to them being "just right" and me being "just wrong."  We arrive at this after I had made some good point well into the conversation.

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Objectivism holds: that reality exists independent of consciousness; that individual persons are in contact with this reality through sensory perception; that human beings can gain objective knowledge from perception through the process of concept formation and inductive and deductive logic; that the proper moral purpose of one's life is the pursuit of one's own happiness or rational self-interest;
Sounds pretty good (bait) at this point, but then (switch)...
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the only social system consistent with this morality is full respect for individual rights, embodied in pure laissez-faire capitalism;
Here we get the imperatives, painted into a corner.

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based on three axioms
Turns into a real snoozer here.

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man's free will is in the choice: to think or not to think.
The only way to know you're not thinking is by thinking, and the only way to know you were not thinking is relying upon memory, which could be faulty.  A slight glitch in her metaphysics, but otherwise sounds okay, but nothing very important or enlightening.


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Rand saw reason and freedom as correlates`“`“just as she saw mysticism and force as correlates.[35]
Here she associates irrationality with "mysticism" and paints it as tyranny.  We are supposed to believe, as she apparently does, that ultimately spirituality is in opposition to freedom.  This is a key aspect.     

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"Rights are moral principles defining and sanctioning a man's freedom of action in a social context" [29].
Here we see the elevation of rights (i.e., property law) over ethos, a replacement of cultural morality with capitalistic world order.


Overall it seems as if she says a lot about a little, and nothing about the rest.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 12:16:13 PM by Wag »
Nobody gets paid to tell the truth.

Offline wag

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2009, 09:01:42 AM »
That's interesting.  I never caught that before. A devil star is not something a lot of people would wear around their neck, at least in public.
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Offline The_Skunk

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2009, 09:24:39 AM »
[edit] Childhood and education
 
Rand completed a three-year program in the department of social pedagogy at Saint Petersburg University.Rand was born Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum (Russian: Алиса Зиновьевна Розенбаум) in 1905, into a middle-class family living in Saint Petersburg, Russia, the eldest of three daughters (Alisa, Natasha, and Nora),[9] to Zinovy Zacharovich Rosenbaum and Anna Borisovna Rosenbaum, largely non-observant Jews.[10] Her father was a chemist and a successful pharmaceutical entrepreneur who earned the privilege of living outside the Jewish Pale of Settlement.[11]


I wonder if Poppa Rosenbaum ever tucked little Anna in?

Offline FrankDialogue

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2009, 10:59:18 AM »
   And no mention of children.  Shouldn't children be a primary concern in any revolution?

'Objectivism' is simply another variant of the Jewish power philosophy, very similiar to Communism in that it reduces a human being to 'object status' or groups of people to 'masses'...Now, 'objectivism' centers totally on the 'self', as opposed to Communism which negates the individual...But, in the end, it is all about manipulation and control...What does objectivism mean?...It means, I am the subject, you are the object: you serve me...No children?...Comment by an associate on Rand's attitude toward children:

Quote from: Barbara Branden
  It was a responsibility that she was not interested in assuming. When she was writing Atlas [Shrugged], she would sometimes say that she was "with book." The only children she wanted were her books.

She was a very confused woman who concoted an elaborate 'system' to mask her utter emptiness.


Offline FrankDialogue

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2009, 11:01:46 AM »
If it changes the lives of many jews, it's a bible.

My friend, Jews do not accept the Bible...They have a different holy book...Do not be confused...

Offline laconas

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2009, 11:56:15 AM »
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The Fountainhead sounds like a real humdinger.  Maybe it was the prototype for the modern TV soap opera.  I'm not sure these books are written with any other underlying theme than to distract us from what really matters.  But with the occasional dark seed,  "Having no true genius, Toohey's mission is to destroy excellence and promote altruism as the ultimate social ideal."  Would I have to read the whole book closely a few times to believe that?

The thing that hit me first were art and architectural styles. She seems to favor the elite Wright designs(designs for the elite) over the Gropius building for masses communist style. At first these 2 styles almost seem like opposites, but in truth they both had the common goal of breaking with the Classical Western Tradition in the 20th Century.

So, if there is to be an elite ruling group, that ruling group cannot live in cookie-cut homes or follow the philosophy of the masses. In some sense she sees herself as designer of a new philosophy for the new elite who no longer have ties to Christianity or Western Traditions.
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Offline laconas

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2009, 12:00:41 PM »
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From book review piece:

"Having no true genius, Toohey's mission is to destroy excellence and promote altruism as the ultimate social ideal. This is put forward in one of his most memorable quotes: "Don`t set out to raze all shrines`”you`ll frighten men. Enshrine mediocrity, and the shrines are razed."

These days, 'shrines' are mostly going defunct first, only razed based on property sale value vs 'developers' of less than mediocre new ventures.

It's a confusing quote, but in the end she was for taking a wrecking ball to western shrines.
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Offline wag

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2009, 12:22:52 PM »
Lennin elevated the working class, Hitler elevated the "volk", Rand annoints the "intellectual" class. 

Do, you like I, find it strange that there are no nationistic "intellectuals"?
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Offline FrontierJustice

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2009, 12:35:59 PM »
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I'm just curious to learn more about her since she's obviously effected many people in positions of power in the 20th century.

Not trying to change the subject but this just reminds me of something I wanted to mention

I find it curious how there are these post-modern, post-marxist, neo-democracy blablabla jews who take interest in the 'conservative revolutionary' movement - particularly Ernst Junger and Carl Schmitt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Revolutionary_movement

Schmitt had these theories he called 'the concept of the political' (about ultimately determining friend from foe, and the real enemy from a mere opponent) and 'the nomos of the earth' (a supposed 'Eurocentric world order' outlook on geopolitics). Junger mainly wrote about his experience in war (WWI) and his views on modern mechanized violence in war (mass death) and its effect on men.

I'm mainly referring to this jewish publishing company Telos Press. I have no idea how influential they are in acedemia, but college students are their target audience.   http://www.telospress.com/
You could see how these jews might be interested in adopting these originally German concepts as their own (they love words like 'statecraft'), but for now they are treating this stuff like a case study ... like trying to connect their islamic terrorist boogeymen with nazis. Ahh the complicated world of the jewish intellectual -- they are never certain which direction to go in order to most efficiently fool people
http://www.telospress.com/main/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=324

I'll try to do an adequate thread later


Re: Ayn Rand --

Just another jewish cult. "The virtue of selfishness"... give me a break. Over-compensation for something. Just gives people an excuse to be a--holes. I always end up butting heads with 'Randians' by instinct so that tells me something. The little I read effected me the right way and that's all I needed. But some people live by her writing religiously, and it's annoying
People end up taking the 'virtue of selfishness' too literally. If they weren't a--holes before reading her, they likely are now - and if they already were, now they have an 'intellectual' excuse.
Someone on here once posted a cartoon that said something like "Libertarianism -- just anarchy for rich jews"
That's sort of how I feel about Rand.

I own the movie We The Living -- it's a good movie


Offline laconas

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2009, 12:53:08 PM »
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Just another jewish cult. "The virtue of selfishness"... give me a break. Over-compensation for something. Just gives people an excuse to be a--holes. I always end up butting heads with 'Randians' by instinct so that tells me something. The little I read effected me the right way and that's all I needed. But some people live by her writing religiously, and it's annoying

It's starting to look like Talmudism for the the masses, or in her case for a select few.

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People end up taking the 'virtue of selfishness' too literally. If they weren't a--holes before reading her, they likely are now - and if they already were, now they have an 'intellectual' excuse.

I've seen this in people I've known. I also know that they were not aware of Rand, so her writings filter through other people's writings who have been influenced by Rand.
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Offline laconas

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2009, 12:58:54 PM »
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Lennin elevated the working class, Hitler elevated the "volk", Rand annoints the "intellectual" class.

Do, you like I, find it strange that there are no nationistic "intellectuals"?

Church, nationalistic intellectuals, and classical tradition of the west all seems to be missing. Sometimes the question -- what's missing from the picture,? says a lot.
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Offline Sue

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2009, 02:16:55 PM »
Love, tragedy and bitter endings...

I had saved this thread, posted by America, last November:

905  Born Alissa Zinovievna Rosenbaum  on February 2 in St. Petersburg, Russia, to Zinovy Zacharovich Rosenbaum ("Fronz") and Anna Borisovna Rosenbaum. Alissa is the oldest of three sisters, Natasha and Nora.

1913 1914 (9) Family makes summer trip to Austria, Switzerland, and England. Reads The Mysterious Valley by Maurice Champagne and falls in love with its hero, Cyrus, who becomes prototype for her own later fictional heroes (the name Kira, heroine of her novel ''We the Living,'' is the feminine of Cyrus). Decides to become a writer.
 
1915 10 First efforts to write novels.
 
1917 12 Summer in Finland. Witnesses first shots of the Bolshevik revolution in St. Petersburg.

1918 13 Falls in love with the work of Victor Hugo; under political pressure, family abandons Petrograd for the Crimea.
 
1921 16 Graduates from gymnasium. The Crimea falls to the Bolsheviks, and Alissa burns her diary, which is filled with anticommunist ideas. Returns with family to Petrograd and enters the University of Petrograd, majoring in history, with a minor in philosophy.

1921/ 22 17 Studies philosophy under N. O. Losky. Initial attraction to Nietzsche"'"s work.

More here: http://www.freedomportal.net/forum/index.php?topic=10158.0
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline laconas

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2009, 02:38:14 PM »
I remember that.
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Offline FrontierJustice

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2009, 02:42:51 PM »

I miss America (both the country and the girl)


Offline Sue

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2009, 02:46:49 PM »
The cover was the first thing I noticed on this thread - with the stretched-out distorted crooked star.
True satanists like to announce themselves up-front.

As for me this is another one of those cases where I see nothing wrong with the logic, and don't really disapprove of the Objectivist philosophy, but nevertheless strongly distrust it.  It DOES promote greed and a sort of money-above-all-else philosophy to life (you worship one God or the other).

We know from the Protocols there's a key strategy to give 'isms' known to be false to the goyim.

From Fiction to Fact in 52 Years   



The art for a 1999 postage stamp.

By STEPHEN MOORE
JANUARY 9, 2009

Some years ago when I worked at the libertarian Cato Institute, we used to label any new hire who had not yet read "Atlas Shrugged" a "virgin." Being conversant in Ayn Rand's classic novel about the economic carnage caused by big government run amok was practically a job requirement. If only "Atlas" were required reading for every member of Congress and political appointee in the Obama administration. I'm confident that we'd get out of the current financial mess a lot faster.

Many of us who know Rand's work have noticed that with each passing week, and with each successive bailout plan and economic-stimulus scheme out of Washington, our current politicians are committing the very acts of economic lunacy that "Atlas Shrugged" parodied in 1957, when this 1,000-page novel was first published and became an instant hit.

Rand, who had come to America from Soviet Russia with striking insights into totalitarianism and the destructiveness of socialism, was already a celebrity. The left, naturally, hated her. But as recently as 1991, a survey by the Library of Congress and the Book of the Month Club found that readers rated "Atlas" as the second-most influential book in their lives, behind only the Bible....


GB had sent this article to me, I posted it: http://www.freedomportal.net/forum/index.php?topic=10998.0

Some good posts to read...
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Sue

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2009, 03:07:53 PM »
I miss America (both the country and the girl)



Me too ~ the young and the old. 
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Sue

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2009, 03:35:16 PM »
In the movie the 3rd Man Harley has metting with a creepy Austrian guy in the park to find out about Harry. At the end of the meeting as Harley is leaving the Austrian, who's holding a copy of Harley's book, says, "such a good book and a very lovely cover." :)

I saw the movie years ago in Germany... I hardly remember it, but I do remember the Third Man Theme. So who was holding the book?
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Sue

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2009, 03:37:01 PM »
Do you make use of your ''bookmarks'' here?
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline laconas

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2009, 04:09:11 PM »


Baron Kurtz

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Offline Sue

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Re: The Ayn Rand Thread
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2009, 04:54:25 PM »
The cover was the first thing I noticed on this thread - with the stretched-out
distorted crooked star.
True satanists like to announce themselves up-front.

One can't miss it.

It DOES promote greed and a sort of money-above-all-else philosophy to life
(you worship one God or the other).
 
Ayn Rand Quotes on Capitalism

`¢ I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction.

`¢ That something happened to you is of no importance to anyone, not even to you. The important thing about you is what you choose to make happen -- your values and choices. That which happened by accident -- what family you were born into, in what country, and where you went to school -- is totally unimportant.

`¢ Pride is the recognition of the fact that you are your own highest value and, like all of man`s values, it has to be earned.

`¢ That which you call your soul or spirit is your conciousness, and that which you call 'free will' is your mind's freedom to think or not, the only will you have, your only freedom, the choice that controls all the choices you make and determines your life and your character.

`¢ We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality.

`¢ Everyone has the right to make his own decisions, but none has the right to force his decision on others.

`¢ And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being, this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride. This god, this one word: 'I.'

`¢ The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles.

`¢ Capitalism demands the best of every man `“ his rationality `“ and rewards him accordingly. It leaves every man free to choose the work he likes, to specialize in it, to trade his product for the products of others, and to go as far on the road of achievement as his ability and ambition will carry him.

`¢ There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: the fashionable non-conformist.

`¢ A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.

`¢ The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

`¢ A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving.

`¢ A gun is not an argument.

`¢ The Middle Ages were an era of mysticism, ruled by blind faith and blind obedience to the dogma that faith is superior to reason. The Renaissance was specifically the rebirth of reason, the liberation of man's mind, the triumph of rationality over mysticism -- a faltering, incomplete, but impassioned triumph that led to the birth of science, of individualism, of freedom.

`¢ The skyline of New York is a monument of a splendour that no pyramids or palaces will ever equal or approach.

`¢ Thanksgiving is a typically American holiday...The lavish meal is a symbol of the fact that abundant consumption is the result and reward of production.

      `¢  Spirituality is not included   

We know from the Protocols there's a key strategy to give 'isms' known to be false to the goyim.

What I mean by that is that because our family and society models are built around the model of inequality, injustice and brutality - we accept that behavior as normal.  So, too is racism, classism, speciesism and any other oppression by one group toward another.  The behaviors of sexism are the behaviors of bullying, injustice, intolerance and cruelty.


Sexism: The mother of all 'isms'.

Sexism is the 'gateway 'ism'', that makes all other 'isms' possible.  It precedes all other forms of discrimination, setting the example that there are some people that view others as inferior and they use brutality upon them.

"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.