Author Topic: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration  (Read 4214 times)

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Offline Sue

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2009, 11:57:45 PM »
Quote
The executions were held on a small island in the River Seine, but a crowd still managed to gather by boat to witness the end of the drama that had exploded that morning. The fires were carefully prepared of dry, seasoned wood and charcoal, to make a low smokeless pyre of intense heat, calculated first to blister the legs and to drag out the finale relief of death by slow roasting from the ground up.

De Molay and de Charney, as long as they could, continued to shout out the innocence of their order. Legend says that as Jacques de Molay's flesh was being burned away he called down a curse on Philip of France and upon all his family for thirteen generations. He called upon both king and pope to meet with him within the year for judgment at the throne of God.

Clement V died in the following month of April, followed by Philip's  unexplained death in November of that same year. As we shall see, the death of Clement V was an almost insignificant revenge compared to the continuing impact of the Templar suppression on the Roman church over the centuries ahead.

Human nature, when it comes to power struggles, religious and otherwise, really has not changed all that much, has it?
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Sue

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2009, 07:15:28 AM »
Even after 1492, when the Jews were expelled from Spain, there was no anti-Semitism. It was not a religious question. It was not a racial question. Their expulsion from Spain in 1492 had been a military question`”the Jews had allied with the Moors, and for military reasons of state security, the Hapsburgs could no longer have the Jews in Spain.

        `”Fernando Quijano, "Black Legend hides the truth about America's Discovery," speech delivered Sept. 2, 1990 (EIR, Oct. 19, 1990).


I have posted this list before, here is a reminder:

Expulsions:  from 250 to

250 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Carthage
415 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Alexandria
554 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Diocese of Clement (France)
561 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Diocese of Uzzes (France)
612 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Visigoth Spain
642 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Visigoth Empire
855 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Italy
876 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sens
1012 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mainz
1182 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France
1182 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Germany
1276 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Upper Bavaria
1290 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - England
1306 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France
1322 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France (again)
1348 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Switzerland
1349 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Heilbronn (Germany)
1349 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Saxony
1349 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hungary
1360 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hungary
1370 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Belgium
1380 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Slovakia
1388 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Strasbourg
1394 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Germany
1394 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France
1420 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lyons
1421 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Austria
1424 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fribourg
1424 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Zurich
1424 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Cologne
1432 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Savoy
1438 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mainz
1439 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Augsburg
1442 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Netherlands
1444 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Netherlands
1446 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bavaria
1453 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France
1453 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Breslau
1454 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Wurzburg
1462 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mainz
1483 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mainz
1484 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Warsaw
1485 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vincenza (Italy)
1492 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Spain
1492 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Italy
1495 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lithuania
1496 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Naples
1496 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Portugal
1498 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nuremberg
1498 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Navarre
1510 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Brandenberg
1510 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prussia
1514 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Strasbourg
1515 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Genoa
1519 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Regensburg
1533 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Naples
1541 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Naples
1542 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prague & Bohemia
1550 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Genoa
1551 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bavaria
1555 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pesaro
1557 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prague
1559 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Austria
1561 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prague
1567 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Wurzburg
1569 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Papal States
1571 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Brandenburg
1582 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Netherlands
1582 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hungary
1593 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Brandenburg, Austria
1597 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Cremona, Pavia & Lodi
1614 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Frankfort
1615 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Worms
1619 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Kiev
1648 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ukraine
1648 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Poland
1649 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hamburg
1654 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Little Russia (Beylorus)
1656 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lithuania
1669 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Oran (North Africa)
1669 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vienna
1670 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vienna
1712 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sandomir
1727 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Russia
1738 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Wurtemburg
1740 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Little Russia (Beylorus)
1744 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prague, Bohemia
1744 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Slovakia
1744 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Livonia
1745 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Moravia
1753 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Kovad (Lithuania)
1761 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bordeaux
1772 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Deported to the Pale of Settlement (Poland/Russia)
1775 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Warsaw
1789 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Alcace
1804 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Villages in Russia
1808 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Villages & Countrysides (Russia)
1815 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lubeck & Bremen
1815 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Franconia, Swabia & Bavaria
1820 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bremen
1843 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Russian Border Austria & Prussia
1862 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Area in the U.S. under Grant's Jurisdiction
1866 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Galatz, Romania
1880s - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Russia
1891 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Moscow
1919 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bavaria (foreign born Jews)
1938-45 - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  Nazi Controlled Areas
1948 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Arab Countries

30 times out of Germany alone. I think I got them all.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 09:32:11 PM by sushigirl »
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Ajax

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2009, 09:36:51 AM »
"the Jews had allied with the Moors"
Were they Moors Africans?
"There is no longer any room for hope"

Offline Ajax

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2009, 09:39:46 AM »
Not at all.


   
"There is no longer any room for hope"

Offline EyeBelieve

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2009, 04:26:38 PM »
Quote
The Jews will ally themselves with the devil, as long as it gets them what they want. I have posted this list before, here is a reminder:

Yes the list is a long one, & I suppose there were different reasons in different expulsions.  Anyway my main mean reason for posting that excerpt was to cast doubt on the idea the the Crusades were instigated for truly religious reasons.  The current War on Islam has little to do with "Islamic terrorism" & much more to do with Zionism, Imperialism, Oil etc.  Not to say that the individual Crusaders didn't have strong beliefs, but they were very possibly manipulated, just like the ignorant Xian fundies of today.

Offline EyeBelieve

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2009, 04:30:29 PM »
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"the Jews had allied with the Moors"
Were they Moors Africans?

North Africans:  Berbers, Arabs etc. 

Offline dean_saor

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2009, 04:48:04 PM »
Actually, most of the "Moors" in Islamic Spain were largely the same Spanish mix as the "Cristianos" - Visigoths, Basques, Celt-Iberians, and so on. There had been Berbers in southern Spain before the arrival of the Muslims in 711; and many of the North Africans from the Atlantic eastwards beyond Carthage were Visigoths and Vandals.

The later influx of Berbers and Arabs produced a minority demography overall but they did form the majority in certain pockets; this was complemented on the Christian side by incomers from France (largely Normans).

Spanish was even written in the Arabic script (and called Al Jamia) in the Moorish areas; and Arabic was fashionably spoken and written in the Christian ones (much to the disgust of a Castilian called Paul Alvares, who wrote a poem about it).

There was also considerable intermarriage; and mixed extended families were common - much as they are in Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, and, prior to the American liberation and democratisation, in Iraq.

The two parts of Spain were so mutually interwoven in each others lives and cultures, that the Germania and the Expulsion caused huge distress even among the Castilian, Valencian, and Aragonese Christians, as can be imagined.

The final deportation of the Moriscos between 1609 and 1614 signalled the complete internal collapse of Spanish infrastructure and the desertification of the formerly productive agricultural areas of the south.
Cha do dhùin doras nach d'fhosgail doras eile;
No door shut but another door opened

Offline Sue

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2009, 08:28:40 PM »
Yes the list is a long one, & I suppose there were different reasons in different expulsions. 

Nah, you don't change the spots on a leopard, I think the reason for the expulsions were always the same. Having ''Christian values'', they mostly just forced liars and thieves to get out. Though they killed a lot of them too.

Anyway my main mean reason for posting that excerpt was to cast doubt on the idea the the Crusades were instigated for truly religious reasons. 

The ''Crusades'' (then and now) were mere blunders, the little 'grunts' and the people left behind believed that these wars were for religious purposes. Today they call it 'terrorism'. And the sheep still believe it.   

The current War on Islam has little to do with "Islamic terrorism" & much more to do with Zionism, Imperialism, Oil etc.  Not to say that the individual Crusaders didn't have strong beliefs, but they were very possibly manipulated, just like the ignorant Xian fundies of today.

Indeed. It's all about power, territories and the theft of valuable resources. In modern times, add lucrative de-construction and reconstruction, in other words, financial enslavement. 

I was just going to give you the link to ''One World, Under God'', but I just saw you got there already. :-))
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Ajax

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2009, 01:49:50 AM »
"It's all about power"
Exactly.


   Although claims have been made that the Masonic secret society originated in the builders of Solomon's temple or medieval guilds of stonemasons in Britain, along with other suggestions even more fanciful, no beginning other than the Knights Templar provides such clear explanations of the lost meanings of the  Masonic symbols of the circle and the mosaic on the lodge room floor, or the lambskin apron and gloves that comprise the "clothing" of Masonry. The compass and square appear allegorically as the unfinished Seal of Solomon, directly symbolizing the unfinished temple. The compass and square hidden in the Seal of Solomon provide a graphic link impossible to ignore, a link between the major badge of Freemasonry and the interruption of the building of Solomon's temple in the legend of Hiram Abiff, as symbolized by the "unfinished" Seal of Solomon.
   That legend, which is the central feature of Masonic ritual, adds credence to the Templar origin, especially since it is based upon an allegorical temple whose construction was halted because of the beating and murder of Grand Master Hiram Abiff. We know that the real Temple of Solomon was fully completed and in use for several centuries. The Temple of Solomon that was not completed can only be the Order of the Poor Fellow Soldiers of Christ and the Temple of Solomon, the Knights Templar. The dead master is replaced by the initiate who is raised to the degree of Master Mason. He not only "becomes" Hiram Abiff in the ritual drama, but also assumes the Grand Master's interrupted objective, the completion of the temple, by keeping the secret society alive and growing, symbolically rescuing the Order of the Temple from the cessation ordered for it by king and pope.
John J. Robinson---Born In Blood-The Lost Secrets Of Freemasonry

NWO?
"There is no longer any room for hope"

Offline Sue

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2009, 09:56:22 AM »
"It's all about power"
Exactly.



   Although claims have been made that the Masonic secret society originated in the builders of Solomon's temple or medieval guilds of stonemasons in Britain, along with other suggestions even more fanciful, no beginning other than the Knights Templar provides such clear explanations of the lost meanings of the  Masonic symbols of the circle and the mosaic on the lodge room floor, or the lambskin apron and gloves that comprise the "clothing" of Masonry. The compass and square appear allegorically as the unfinished Seal of Solomon, directly symbolizing the unfinished temple. The compass and square hidden in the Seal of Solomon provide a graphic link impossible to ignore, a link between the major badge of Freemasonry and the interruption of the building of Solomon's temple in the legend of Hiram Abiff, as symbolized by the "unfinished" Seal of Solomon.

   That legend, which is the central feature of Masonic ritual, adds credence to the Templar origin, especially since it is based upon an allegorical temple whose construction was halted because of the beating and murder of Grand Master Hiram Abiff. We know that the real Temple of Solomon was fully completed and in use for several centuries. The Temple of Solomon that was not completed can only be the Order of the Poor Fellow Soldiers of Christ and the Temple of Solomon, the Knights Templar. The dead master is replaced by the initiate who is raised to the degree of Master Mason. He not only "becomes" Hiram Abiff in the ritual drama, but also assumes the Grand Master's interrupted objective, the completion of the temple, by keeping the secret society alive and growing, symbolically rescuing the Order of the Temple from the cessation ordered for it by king and pope.
John J. Robinson---Born In Blood-The Lost Secrets Of Freemasonry

NWO?

I have never read or heard, of hiram abiff, never mind the legend. So I looked up the name and found the following, I have not read it yet, but it is not all that long.

It ends with:

If you are a Mason who claims to be a Christian, you have a simple choice to make:

       1. You can stand with the church and defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
       2. You can stand with the Lodge and defend a false plan of salvation which is
           based upon the imitation of Hiram Abiff.

           Your choice will determine where you spend eternity.

http://www.ephesians5-11.org/hiram.htm
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Sue

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2009, 09:03:36 PM »
"the Jews had allied with the Moors"
Were they Moors Africans?

"The original Moors, like the original Egyptians, were Black Africans."

It would not be inaccurate to say that the Moors helped reintroduce Europe to civilization.  But just who were the Moors of antiquity anyway?  As early as the Middle Ages, and as early as the seventeenth century, "The Moors were," according to the Oxford English Dictionary, "commonly supposed to be mostly black or very swarthy, and hence the word is often used for negro."  Dr. Chancellor Williams stated that "The original Moors, like the original Egyptians, were Black Africans."

At the beginning of the eighth century Moorish soldiers crossed over from Africa into Spain, Portugal, and France, where their swift victories became the substance of legends.  To the Christians of early Europe there was no question regarding the ethnicity of the Moors, and numerous sources support the view that the Moors were a black-skinned people.  Morien, for example, is the adventure of a heroic Moorish knight supposed to have lived during the days of King Arthur.  Morien is described as "all black: his head, his body, and his hands were all black."  In the French epic known as the Song of Roland the Moors are described as "blacker than ink."

William Shakespeare used the word Moor as a synonym for African. Christopher Marlowe used African and Moor interchangeably.  Arab writers further buttress the Black identity of the Moors.  The powerful Moorish emperor Yusuf ben-Tachfin is described by an Arab chronicler as "a brown man with wooly hair."

Black soldiers, specifically identified as Moors, were actively recruited by Rome, and served in Britain, France, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Romania.  St. Maurice, patron saint of medieval Europe, was only one of many Black soldiers and officers under the employ of the Roman Empire.

http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/moors1.html
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Ajax

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2009, 10:16:51 AM »
   Every Master was a "widow's son." He was the continuation of the Master-line that had apparently been broken with the death of the first Grand Master, Hiram Abiff. In the initiation drama he had been assigned the role of Hiram Abiff, whose mantle, thus assumed, became the central feature of the candidate's role in the secret society. In that same role he would emulate Abiff, who had died rather than give up the secrets of the Master Mason. In that role he would thwart the effects of the attack by three assassins who had wanted those secrets badly enough to kill, not caring that the murder of Hiram Abiff meant an end to the building of the unfinished temple.
   That continuation of the function of the Grand Master and temple-architect, a kind of immortalization of a dream kept alive by those to come after him, was symbolized by the branch of the acacia, a symbol of immortality much older than Christianity. To ancient peoples, the weather and the reactions of crops were the determinates of life and death, of good living or near starvation during the year ahead. The changes in season, too much or too little rain, and crop-killing frosts were much more understandable and more easily addressed in religious worship than were total mysteries such as molds, fungi, and animal diseases, which were usually ascribed to witchcraft or the evil eye. With no fresh food to look forward to and no means to preserve the food they had, the most dreaded season was winter, when the days grew shorter as the Power of Darkness each day gained ground over the Power of Light. As though to maximize their misery, every bush, tree, and plant died. All, that is, except the evergreen. It stayed bright and green and so had to be occupied by a spirit stronger than the Power of Darkness, preserving life until the sun could manage its inevitable, but temporary victory. That strong spirit helped to bridge the gap from autumn to spring, preserving the thread of life. In some areas, an evergreen tree was cut down in order to bring the good spirit into the house, where the branches were draped with gifts, a tradition of the old natural religion which we still preserve at Christmastime. Thus the evergreen became the symbol of immortality, and one of those evergreens was the acacia.
   The acacia would have been selected as the symbol of Hiram Abiff's "immortality" for very specific reasons. It was of acacia wood that God ordered that the Ark of the Covenant be made, the ark that was to be housed in the Sanctum Sanctorum  of Solomon's temple, where the Grand Master made his plans for the next day's work. The acacia was also the host of a specific breed of mistletoe with a flamed-red flower. Not only was that mistletoe--which not only stayed green, but actually bore its fruit in the winter--a strong symbol of immortality in itself, but many believe that the acacia, covered with a blanket of fiery mistletoe blossoms, was the "burning bush" of the Old Testament. In addition, the Egyptian acacia bears a red and white flower, a reminder of the Templar colors, based upon a white mantle with red cross.
   Hiram Abiff's immortality lies not in the eternal existence of his soul in some heavenly kingdom, but in the minds and bodies of those Masters who came after him, men charged to take his place and to finish what the mythical Grand Master had begun. Their duty was to make the plans and direct the "workman," the Entrants and Fellows of the Craft, in achieving Abiff's goal, the completion of the Temple of Solomon.
John J. Robinson---Born In Blood-The Lost Secrets Of Freemasonry 
"There is no longer any room for hope"

Offline WindRiverShoshoni

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2009, 10:49:49 PM »
...the first Grand Master, Hiram Abiff.

Hiram Abiff was not the first Grand Master.
It's too dark here.

Offline Sue

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2009, 11:05:57 PM »
Thank you, Ajax.

This was a well written chapter, but other than that, I really don't know anything about Hiram Abiff.
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Sue

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2009, 11:06:56 PM »
...the first Grand Master, Hiram Abiff.

Hiram Abiff was not the first Grand Master.

Who was the first Grand Master, WRS?
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline WindRiverShoshoni

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2009, 12:11:27 AM »
Who was the first Grand Master, WRS?

That would have been Jabal, Jubal and Tubalcain, although Enoch was the first of the builders, and those three were his great-great-great grandsons.  Later, the line passed through Japheth, Noah's son and Tubalcain's nephew.

The murder of Hiram Abiff (see 1st Kings 7:13-14, 2nd Chronicles 2:13-14) is a major event in the history of apostate Israel, which is why it is not mentioned in the Hebrew Scripture although Hiram and his works are extolled, and why it is commemorated in The Lodge and often imagined to be the beginnings of The Lodge ~ it was not.

The next Grand Master of major significance in the Hebrew Scripture is Cyrus of Persia, who sent the renegades of apostate Israel back from the Babylonian Captivity with money, laborers, and an army to build the Second Temple.  This fulfilled an element of their part of their bargain with apostate Israel that was made in the time of Solomon after the murder of Hiram Abiff.

The later prophets referred to that bargain as "You have said 'We have made a bargain with death and with hell are we at agreement.' "  Falsifying the Messiah Jesus to give the Roman empire an ostensibly Scripture-based Nimrodian mystery religion by which to rule over the gentiles of Europe was an element of apostate Israel's part of the bargain.

The Lodge is much older than Hiram Abiff.
It's too dark here.

Offline Ajax

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2009, 06:40:09 AM »
Interesting, why then do they refer to him as the first Grand Master?
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Offline dean_saor

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2009, 07:12:44 AM »
Quote
"The original Moors, like the original Egyptians, were Black Africans."...  As early as the Middle Ages, and as early as the seventeenth century, "The Moors were," according to the Oxford English Dictionary, "commonly supposed to be mostly black or very swarthy, and hence the word is often used for negro."  Dr. Chancellor Williams stated that "The original Moors, like the original Egyptians, were Black Africans."

I think that this is unlikely. They were called Moors after the Roman province (and earlier independent kingdom) of Mauretania, which was named after the Mauri tribe whose kingdom it was. It covered the Mediterranean (and a bit of the Atlantic coast) part of what is now Morocco and western Algeria. As such it was Berber. People have associated the Greek mauro-o, "to darken" as the origin of the word Mauri and thus that they were black. It's much more likely that the word was the Berbers' own name which the Greeks adopted and gave their own meaning to.

The Sahara is a divider between the Mediterranean and northern peoples from the southern peoples, many of whom had migrated north from the Congo Basin at the time of the late Middle Ages and after.

The Fulani of northern Nigeria consider themselves white, and have an origin myth that they migrated from the Mediterranean coast.

Berbers did migrate south as well, and Berber languages are spoken in southern Morocco and Mauritania (the present-day one). But there is a difference between the southerners like the Masmuda-Sinhaja-Zanata Berbers from the Anti-Atlas, many of whom look "African", and the Rif and Atlas Berbers who are "white" and look like Basques.

And it's more than likely that the "original Egyptians" were not black Africans and didn't in fact come from Africa at all but are the survival of some prehistoric migration analogous to those of the Sea Peoples, the Hyksos, or the Hittites.
Cha do dhùin doras nach d'fhosgail doras eile;
No door shut but another door opened

Offline Sue

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2009, 08:45:33 AM »
Search: Enoch the first of the builders

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/67655/1/Enochs-Sumerian-ancestors

Enoch's Sumerian ancestors

Within the antediluvian geneology lists of Genesis, one figure stands out. In the formulaic "Priestly" geneology, we read:

"When Enoch was sixty-five years old he became father to Methuselah. Enoch walked with God. After the birth of Methuselah he lived for three hundred years and he became the father of sons and daughters. In all, Enoch lived for three hundred and sixty-five years. Enoch walked with God. Then he vanished because God took him" (Genesis 5:21-24). The Kenite "Yahwist" (J) geneology in ch. 4 also mentioned another Enoch: "Cain had intercourse with his wife, and she conceived and gave birth to Enoch. He became builder of a town, and it was given the name of name of Enoch" (Genesis 4:17). The enigmatic figure of Enoch in Genesis was elaborated considerably in later Jewish legend (especially in the first century B.C. apocalypse 1 Enoch), but the traditions contained therein are much older. For many years it has been recognized that the Enochian traditions are dependent on Sumerian and Akkadian legends.

From the Kenite geneology in Genesis 4, we learn that (1) Enoch was either the builder or the namesake of the first city; from the Sethite geneology in Genesis 5, we learn that (2) Enoch was the seventh in a ten-member antediluvian geneology, (3) Enoch "walked with God", (4) Enoch lived for 365 years (the number being a solar motif), and (5) Enoch was taken by God; and from 1 Enoch we learn that (6) Enoch was taken into heaven, journeyed through the extremities of the earth and the darkness of Sheol, and settled into Paradise to receive eternal life, and (7) Enoch was inducted into the astronomical mysteries of heaven, the movements of the sun, moon, and stars and the years and seasons. We also know that (8.) Enoch's name means "to instruct, initiate, dedicate" in Hebrew. Each of these motifs have Sumerian antecedents and the figure of Enoch combines features ascribed to Enmeduranki, Ziusudra, and Gilgamesh in Sumerian myth....

The two antediluvian geneologies in Genesis 3-6 are doublets of each other, viz. the Kenite Kayin = Sethite Kenan, Enoch = Enoch, Irad = Jared, Mehujael = Mahalalel, Methushael = Methuselah, Lamech = Lamech. Sumerian and Akkadian etymologies have been posited for some of these names, e.g. Sumerian lamga "priest" < Lamech, Akkadian wardu "servant" < Jared, and Akkadian mutusha-ilu "vassal of God" < Methushael < Methuselah. The first obvious parallel with Babylonian/Sumerian myth is the belief in ten antediluvian kings followed by a Flood and postdiluvian dynasties, with the antediluvian kings having considerably longer life-spans than the postdiluvian ones.

Various versions of the antediluvian king list exist; the earlier editions designate 8 kings and the later editions insert an additional fourth king and an additional tenth king (the Flood hero). The first millenium B.C. list of Berossus, representing the traditions of the Neo-Babylonian period, would thus better fit the time-frame of the exilic Priestly narrative. Although the names on Berossos' list have been distorted through their rendering into Greek, each can be identified with their original Sumerian or Akkadian versions. When we compare the Sethite list with the Babylonian list of Berossus, we find a number of striking coincidences.

"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.

Offline Sue

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Re: Original Masons Prior To Jewish Infiltration
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2009, 08:51:58 AM »



Tobias Churton is one of the few scholars in the field of the Mystical Western tradition that I read time and time again because he approaches his subject with academic rigor. The Golden Builders is a resume of the history of Western mysticism and of its influences. Churton gives the reader a good insight into Hermes Trimegistus, The Harran Gnostics, Alchemy and the Rosicrucians and ends the book with a very interesting piece on Elias Ashmole and Freemasonry.
"At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is "not done".
...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with.